Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 In today's episode, we discuss six ways to build a unified church in a divided world. As the contentious 2020 U S election season comes to a close, the church has the opportunity to be a model of unity, but many churches are just as divided as the rest of the country. Join us. As we put together the dots on how your church can become a place that truly brings people together. We hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow.
Speaker 1 00:00:42 You're listening to the reach, right podcast, the show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help you your church. See more visitors and grow. Hey guys. Welcome.
Speaker 0 00:01:10 Welcome to the reach right podcast episode number 18. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost and Hyatt. Hey, Hey Ian, how are you doing, man? I'm doing good.
Speaker 1 00:01:23 Doing good. It's crazy. A crazy
Speaker 0 00:01:26 Time. We're in right happy
Speaker 1 00:01:28 Election week. We, we made it through
Speaker 0 00:01:31 The voting day. Uh, but we, we remain in election season. It seems like because action limbo. Exactly. We're recording this on November the fifth, uh, at, uh, about four o'clock central time there, uh, noon Hawaii time is when we're recording this here. So, uh, as of right now, we still wait for the election to be called one way or the other. We don't really know or presume to know anything about that. And, uh, we want to talk a little bit about some of those things. Cause I think so many pastors, I don't know if you hear this in the conversations you have, but so many pastors are wrestling with, how do we handle this? How do we handle this season? And the title of this episode is six ways to build a unified church in a divided world because, um, at least for the American church, uh, I think that, I think we're pretty divided right now, um, in, I think just in our culture, we're pretty divided and I think the church tends to model that. And I don't, I think that we've certainly been more divided at times along racial lines or along gender lines and those kinds of things, but right now around, um, political lines, uh, certainly in my lifetime, um, I can't remember a time when we've been so divided on things and there's a lot of healing that needs to happen. Would you agree? Amen. Yeah, absolutely agree with all of that. It's a, it's an, of course, 2020 with everything that it's presented, all of us, it's just of heightened. I think
Speaker 2 00:03:00 This division even more because of all the other things happening. Right.
Speaker 0 00:03:04 So true. So, and I shouldn't be say this as we get into things is that we have an audience, we know all over the world. So we have people that listen in Canada and all over Europe and we saw a whole bunch in, um, Western Africa, African countries. And so, uh, this may, I hope this is beneficial to you too, because well, the election may not be taking place in your world that I think that this idea of a divisive world, I know for family members, I have in England, that they went through their Brexit thing and there was all kinds of division and churches there. And it just is kind of the world that we live in right now. So hopefully this is beneficial regardless of where our listeners are. But yeah, I think this is just a really challenging time. I'm hearing that from, from pastors left and right, that it's, it is challenging to figure out how to, how to get into this and how to bring healing.
Speaker 0 00:03:56 And I think this is one of these times where the church really can be, uh, a, a light as salt and light in their community because this division isn't something that is only in churches. It certainly it's even broader. I would say outside of churches is that, um, we are so polarized and people have such their own silos that they live in. And my heart is that churches could be almost like that one. I hate to use the term safe space, but my goodness that we could be that place where people would find unity with people that maybe don't think exactly like them in political areas. So I think that's just a really awesome opportunity for churches.
Speaker 2 00:04:34 Yeah, absolutely. It is. I mean, and I think that, you know, I, again, as I've mentioned before, uh, in previous podcasts, I'm on, I guess the front lines, if you will, I talk to, you know, an interface with so many pastors all over the country or ministry leaders and, and yeah, it's, it's it, this week's been interesting. There's just been this kind of like undertone of just, uh, you know, you could just kinda sense it, even if no one says anything about the election or, or division or, or protests. And, and let's just say this too, it's been divided even before election day here and what we're dealing with now, this has been this whole season. Um, and, uh, and w since March and, uh, and so, you know, I think that it's just always kind of the 400 pound elephant in the room thing. It doesn't always get addressed, but I agree with you, Thomas is it's the time for the church to, to shine the brightest. And often we allow it to paralyze us. And I think that's the biggest thing. That's why it's good. We're doing this topic here today. Cause it's, uh, uh, you don't want to be paralyzed in, uh, you know, in a time like this, uh, because we have the answer to unity, uh, the number one answer to unity. Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:05:44 I feel like I got some perspective on this in my season, up until last year, for those that don't know in our audience up until last year, I was pastoring a church in, uh, in Madison, Wisconsin and Madison, Wisconsin for those don't know, uh, is the, uh, if you look at a map of Wisconsin in this election season, it's that really blue area right in the middle of, of Wisconsin there. Uh, and, uh, last cycle, it went 80% for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. So it's very, very left leaning. Uh, and I was pastoring and evangelical church, uh, in that environment. Uh, and there were all kinds of challenges as you might expect when you are. Uh, I think that there's a certain perception of what evangelicals are, what they believe, uh, much has been made of the way that evangelicals in general went for Donald Trump last time around.
Speaker 0 00:06:38 Uh, but, uh, I think that there was, I gleaned a lot of wisdom in my time. There pastoring a church where almost everybody we evangelized or shared their faith with or brought into our church was coming from a left leaning perspective on life. Uh, so we really gleaned a lot. Um, I think I have some things to add to this conversation here today on some things that I learned and believe me, I learned most of these things, the hard way I came in as a, as a guy from Texas, uh, we moved up there to take that church in Wisconsin and, uh, Williamson County, Texas and Madison, Wisconsin are very different places, culturally. Uh, so we learned a ton in that time. And I think that through that, in the middle of that, we saw, uh, in a very left leaning community, we saw a thriving evangelical church take root, uh, take hold, and still doing really well to this day there. So, um, I think we gained some, some wisdom that I I'd love to share with people that I too, so I don't know why don't you kick us off though. We have a list of six ways to build a unified church in a divided world. Why don't you kick us off?
Speaker 2 00:07:43 Yeah. Excited to kick off point number one. And that's that, uh, you got to talk about this, right? You got it. You know, that's, uh, as we know, uh, as we've referred to in, uh, church life for years, uh, as pastors and just believers and followers that the sin of silence, right? So there's a sin of silence. That's the sin of not sharing Jesus or, or addressing these things. And, uh, and as we've seen on social media in recent months and everything leading up to this election, that a lot of people say that if you're silent, then you're not helping anything. Uh, and there's probably some truth to that. And then also there's another side of that. Right? We can talk about that, but, um, but yeah, as, as a pastor specifically, you know, if we find out what happens and you were saying this earlier, right. If we find out what happens here with this election, you know, uh, by tomorrow Friday, uh, we should address it on Sunday. Do you, shouldn't just, uh, all of a sudden, just go into your sermon series and not address it.
Speaker 0 00:08:41 I think you, if you're live in the United States, you should address it. Even if we don't know who the president is or anything this, this Sunday. So I think one of the biggest mistakes churches can make is to try to deal with the division by avoiding it at all costs. Uh, so that's, that's kind of the approach that people sometimes take. And I just do not think that that's something that's going to work because, uh, people are looking to you as the leader of your church to bring some, some kind of perspective for them. And I think, uh, there are people as much as it's become kind of a cliche there's people that are, are hurting in this season right now. Um, I think that there's going to be people that feel like winners, people that feel like losers right now, if this election gets resolved.
Speaker 0 00:09:26 Uh, and I think that giving comfort to people is one of those pastoral jobs that, that really only you can bring when you're up there speaking this Sunday morning, or you're doing your announcements. Um, so I think that that's just a huge mistake that, and, and I, I want to be clear. It's not saying, uh, too, I don't think the right answer is to, to celebrate or to cry, uh, in churches this weekend, but to at least address the fact that we had an election that it's still being counted, if it is still being counted and taking a look at things and that the church can be a unifying force. I think that is one of the things that our community needs that only the church can bring is that, I don't know if you, if you took a poll of people and said, do you think we're going to become more United as a country over the next few years?
Speaker 0 00:10:14 I think most people would probably guess, nah, I don't see how that's going to happen there. I don't, I don't think that that's going to be the case, but I think that the church is something that really can be refreshing in this season. And it'll be a breath of fresh air where everybody just has their polar opposites and they, they, they hang out only with people that are like-minded the church really can be talking about these kinds of things. And just at least be open about the fact that this is the reality that we live in. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:10:41 That's exactly. You made me laugh when you said, uh, you, you don't want to celebrate, uh, in church or whoever, uh, opponent and you were going for, uh, you know, are, you know, I just think that that'd be hilarious cause you're going to offend someone, right. At least a couple of people, maybe not, maybe if you're in a specific kind of church that, uh, you know, it does lean one way and preaches that over the pulpit and all of that. But, uh, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 0 00:11:06 Yeah, that actually leads me well to number two, because number two is, do not choose sides. I think this is something that is really important. Uh, and I say this knowing full well that there are pastors out there that, um, that openly tell their church that they voted for Donald Trump, or they openly tell their church that they voted for Joe Biden, uh, or they tell their church that that's, uh, you know, they may not come out and say it, but they, you know, make the strong case that they should vote one way or the other. And yeah, I imagine there's a lot in our audience that do this, and this might be something that seems like it's a, it doesn't make sense, but just in my experience, uh, the problem with this is that it is provable that this, that kind of a statement would alienate half of our half of the, in your community right now.
Speaker 0 00:11:55 Now there would have been plenty advantages for me in Madison, Wisconsin, uh, to come out and say, you know, vote Democrat this, this year, you know, vote, vote blue. And there's all kinds of advantages. Like I think that would get me all kinds of street cred. People would share my posts more if I said those kinds of things and the opposite would have been the case. If I came out and said, Hey, church, vote Trump, or, you know, follow your heart and vote the way, the way conservatives would on this. If I said those kinds of things, I'd get all kinds of pushback. So there's, you could probably find people that would toot your horn and celebrate you if you did one or the other on that. But I am telling you that if your purpose as a church is to reach the lost in your community, there are lost people that will no longer take your church. Seriously. The moment you come out one way or the other on this, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2 00:12:45 Yeah, I, I completely agree because, I mean, I think it also, the thing that pops into my mind first and foremost is just that we have a CA we're supposed to have a kingdom perspective. You know, we're supposed to be steering everything to Jesus. And if, once you make it about a particular side or political party, well, then that becomes your, your that's almost becomes your, what I've seen for the churches that do this, is that becomes more of your minute ministry initiative. I've seen churches, uh, you know, for years now. Uh, and you know, even before Trump Biden and Trump, Hillary, um, that have their political churches, you know, and some of these churches, they end up on the news for being, so my experience is those churches that have chosen a side and that's their focus. Well, you know, they're really not focused on Jesus all that much. I don't hear much about how excited they are that, you know, 50 people were saved last Sunday and 20 were baptized. And, uh, it becomes more about, you know, um, just a political agenda. And I think that's, that's where we gotta be careful. And if we're steering it towards Jesus, um, you know, we're, we're existing outside of this world system, right. That's what the Bible calls us to. So I think that, that's the first thing I think of,
Speaker 0 00:13:57 Let me ask you this. So you have a lot of Christians in your social media feeds. I'm sure you have a lot of people that love Jesus there and a lot that don't yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. Meet me too. Yeah. I wonder in my experience, what I've seen in my feed is those people that I know love Jesus, that there's many of them that most of their content that they're putting out there is political, right. That it's mostly political. And I, I'm not, I'm not making any kind of an accusation to these people, but I think that, uh, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks, right. And so if our religion or the thing that's most important to us, I think, I guess what I'm saying is for a lot of people that is their religion, that politics have become a substitute for religion.
Speaker 0 00:14:43 And you hear the way people talk at political speeches or people talk online about things is that it really has almost like a religious tone. It, and if you agree with me, you are righteous. If you disagree, you are wicked. Uh, and it really is something that we cannot tolerate. And the moment that you come out there in your church and take a side on this, you will be categorized by half of your people as righteous or wicked what one or the other is how it goes in most cases there. Uh, so I think if we want to be a healing place, and especially if you care about evangelizing, the lost that think differently from you, it's so important that you not choose sides on things. So
Speaker 2 00:15:21 Because you can, uh, I, you know, I have, like we just said people on both sides, Christian friends and my social media feed, and many that are not Christians. And if I were to take us specific stance or anything like that, I'm going to eliminate, like you said, you know, uh, you know, liberals that don't know Jesus and conservatives that don't know Jesus cause right off the bat, you know, they're not going to be as open to hearing from me about Jesus. And so, yeah, that's right. Exactly. Yep. That's it, it brings us to a good third point here to bringing in eternal perspective instead of a political perspective. So, uh, I think that's what we're talking about here too. Uh, we were talking earlier, you put it, you put it really well. That, uh, really, if we think about, no matter what happens in this, uh, race here, it is just such a small fragment in and of time and history. And also with wherever in eternity, obviously eternity, it's a very small fragment and, and really, we got to look at it at the end of the day, is this is just going to decide some things for four years and not eternity. Right? So
Speaker 0 00:16:28 Yeah, no, that's exactly, exactly right. There's such a small thing in the grand scheme of the world that it's certainly not going to matter too much yet. I just, I try to put myself in the perspective of, of early church people, you know, or people that live 2000 years ago and really throughout human history, the ability to choose our own leaders has been very rare. That's a brand new invention from a couple of centuries ago is how long we've been doing this whole thing. This whole elected people where it actually was a legitimate system where people were elected and chosen. So remembering how blessed we are in the grand scheme of things, did you know that every single early Christian that we read about it in scripture, they had no choice of who their leaders were politically. They didn't get any say or any choice in that whatsoever.
Speaker 0 00:17:14 Uh, and that's just the, the world that they lived in. And yet the gospel still thrived that, that the kingdom, it still was, uh, it was from on high and God did great things. And, uh, we're Christians today because of the sacrifice that those people made back then. And so I think that, uh, having a perspective that this is that we are still extremely blessed. Uh, and this again is a very American perspective. I know this is different. I know we have listeners in countries where maybe their election and democratic systems aren't as transparent and trustworthy as ours are here in the United States. But we do live in a place where we do, we can have that kind of perspective and God remains on the throne, even when terrible things happen politically or things that we radically disagree with. It's important to have an eternal perspective. And I think your church pastors that are listening, your church needs to hear that, uh, that God remains on the throne. And I think that's just a way to give people courage, to go on and continue to, to, to share their faith and to, to be witnesses to their community. So, uh, encourage people with an eternal perspective.
Speaker 2 00:18:19 That's funny that you say that that's been kind of like the number one thing I've been saying to encourage pastors, because when this topic, when, when this is brought up about, you know, uncertain about who's going to win, I'm just no matter what, you know, Jesus is still in control. And I think, and it's funny, I say that it's such a simple thing, right? It should be understood, but that's actually, I can tell that that, that it's, you know, it helps the light bulb go off for the pastor that I was talking to. Cause I can tell that they're really focused on a lot of them are focused on this outcome and they need to be reminded of that. And it's so funny, it's something we should all know. And I think we all do know as believers, but it's, uh, it's, it's definitely the case. Yep.
Speaker 0 00:18:58 No, that's exactly right. So let me hit number four here. Uh it's uh, I think it's important, uh, to bring unity that we pray for our leaders equally. Um, one of the things that I observed is over the last four years in evangelical churches, I did see more public prayer happening, uh, for our president in the last four years, Donald Trump, than I did in the previous four years or eight years with Barack Obama in evangelical churches. That's my perspective. I mean, I could be wrong. It's, there's no scientific research on this or anything, but I think that, um, there was just a movement towards that. And we know from scripture that we are called to be praying for our leaders, praying for our government officials. That is something that we really do believe in. And so, uh, if I were pastoring a church this Sunday and the election was, uh, the results were announced, I would take a time to pray for the next president of the United States, Joe Biden, or Donald Trump, either one, I would take some time to actually pray for them in my service, because I think it is so important that we pray, honestly, especially for leaders who disagree with.
Speaker 0 00:20:08 I think it's, it's funny that if, if it seems like, I guess I'm extrapolating some information and I assume that most of these evangelical churches that were praying for Donald Trump had a larger base that supported Trump can't verify it. But that's what I would guess. I think that it's important that if you disagree with someone, uh, or they, they have a perspective that's different from you, you should spend all the more time praying for them. I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:20:33 Yeah, that's what I, yeah, it's exactly what I think. And I think it reminded me when you were talking about that of, uh, when, uh, Barack Obama, uh, was brought into office, Rick Warren, I believe prayed for him. Absolutely. And that was, that was televised. And, and it was definitely a very, uh, biblically led, I should say, spirit led prayer if it's biblically salad. And, uh, he said plenty in there, uh, that, and, and it was great, you know, I think that absolutely that showed, uh, the kind of heart that we should have for no matter who it is. Uh, there was elected.
Speaker 0 00:21:07 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think he got a lot of guff for that. A lot of people gave, well, both sides. People gave Barack Obama guff because they'd have a, a conservative Christian, at least it seems like he had a conservative stance on a tradition on traditional marriage and those kinds of things. And he's against abortion, uh, positions that don't, or that Barack Obama didn't have. So Obama got a lot of guff for that. Rick Warren got Gosford, what people saw as supporting, uh, his, uh, supporting that precedent that they disagreed with. He wasn't having any of it. When he, when that guff was coming his way, he said, well, I'm called to pray for my leaders. And so he continued to do that. So yeah, we celebrate that. I think that churches, you're missing a huge opportunity if you don't take some time to pray for our next president this weekend, uh, and just show that impartiality there. I think that's really important,
Speaker 2 00:21:55 That's it? Exactly. If someone wasn't praying for the apostle Paul or, uh, trying to, uh, share Jesus in front of him, like, like we, we know Stephen was an amazing wit a witness in front of him right before dying. Uh, you know, and if that love and all of that wasn't displayed, you know, how much of the Bible would be missing right now, we wouldn't have had that, uh, through that. So exactly. And I'm good at and fifth point, we'll bring up here, um, a little bit different, uh, it's, don't answer every question publicly. We've talked about how, you know, you should talk about these things, but every answer, you know, shouldn't be, it doesn't have to be answered publicly. And I think I'll mention this first, before you go into, when you have to say on it, but I I've seen, um, my pastor, um, have to be very strategic at this, uh, being a part of a mega sized church, um, where there's a ton of diverse people on both sides, politically and ethnically and all of that, uh, on a Sunday.
Speaker 2 00:22:55 And there's all these major issues that we confront, you know, and now granted in a church, our size, no, one's going to just yell out from the crowd. What do you think, pastor? Who did you vote for? Uh, maybe they would. I hope they did it, but, but, uh, the reason I think of this and I know you'll have some different examples is because he asked to think strategically to S to say certain things and not say certain things. And that's not just so that we keep all of the numbers in the members that we have a pastor that does not shy away from preaching the gospel, uh, every Sunday. And, and, and, and we've lost plenty of people because we're very gospel oriented, but you still got to not say certain things publicly, uh, because it just can open up a Canon. There's a lot of things that should be handled, you know, maybe on a side conversation when it comes to this division and political stuff too. Yeah. Yeah. I think
Speaker 0 00:23:46 That everything in scripture, I, we, we, and I, I'm sure you agree that everything that's taught in scripture is, um, worthy of being taught publicly. Um, and there are, there are teachings in scripture that have come political conversations that we have right now. Right. So, um, I know I pastored through the Supreme court, uh, gay and traditional marriage debate that was happening there. I pastored through abortion, uh, trials and those kinds of things. And so I, I think the scripture does have clear things that it teaches, uh, on these topics. Yeah. I think my point is that just because somebody asks you a question, it doesn't mean that you need to answer them publicly all the time. Like that's not always what it is. And I, I come back to what Jesus, his approach was because he was on many occasions, asked questions publicly. And let me say this, I think we're in a very similar time to the time was we read about in Jesus and that people ask you questions publicly, oftentimes in order to get you to take a stand one way or the other on things and puts you in one camp or the other, you see this in Jesus's teachings about when the Sadducees and the Pharisees would come to him and say, you know, which, which side, what do you think about the resurrection?
Speaker 0 00:25:07 Because they're trying to figure out well, does Jesus fit more in the sagittal sea or in the Pharisee camp? And Jesus didn't answer directly these questions. He didn't. So my favorite example from Jesus and practicing this is that he would get demanded of by a group of Pharisees to say, they'd come to him and say, Hey, we couldn't help. But notice that your, your followers weren't keeping the Sabbath the way that the law requires that you would keep it. What do you have to say about this? And just like our time we have these issues, like, uh, where we stand on abortion or on gay marriage or on immigration policy or on racial reconciliation, there's all kinds of issues. Some of them are there. All of them are touched on in scripture. Uh, and I think that all of them have political implications to them.
Speaker 0 00:25:51 So Jesus has one in his time, was this issue of what do we do about the Sabbath? Should we keep it religiously? Like the Pharisees did? Is it more open-ended and Jesus had a perspective on this. Jesus was, I mean, I'm sure that that God has a thought on what you should do about the Sabbath, but you'll look at what Jesus, his response was. He didn't give them the exact thing that they were looking for, because it says he knew what their hearts were behind. It. He knew what they were trying to do when they were asking these questions. And so he responds like he typically does with another question for them. And then he says, neither while I answer your question, when they wouldn't answer his question. So he publicly refused to answer spiritual questions that he was asked because he perceived the motive behind.
Speaker 0 00:26:37 It was to take him off of his message and put him on in camp or the other to get him to choose sides and to choose teams. And so I think there's a really important lesson for pastors in this here is that, should you have a position on, on a homosexual marriage? Absolutely. You should have a position on that in your church. You should have something written down as to what you believe about those things. But when someone comes and asks you to say publicly or depart, write it on social media, even worse and demands an answer. If you do tell me right now, what do you think about this? I don't think you all have an answer. I don't think you owe everybody that comes because you need to really get their heart. Now here's what my perspective was. People came to me, pastoring, a church in Wisconsin in Madison there.
Speaker 0 00:27:25 Um, they'd asked me that kind of question in the middle of that Supreme court debate. What do you think? What does the church teach on this? Put a position out there publicly on these things. And we were resistant towards that. Not because we didn't have a position, our position is very clear. We were, denominationaly tied with the international church of the Foursquare gospel. We had a very clear position on these things here, but I wasn't about to be reduced because what people would do in that issue is they would look at you and say, so, um, if you believe in traditional marriage, then that means that you don't like gay people, which means that you are a hater and you're a bigot. And I can't go to your church anymore. Like that, that's what we were up against in that time there. So I wasn't about to put that out there.
Speaker 0 00:28:09 Uh, and, and just publicly be telling everybody that, because I don't want people to leap to those kinds of conclusions. Now we had people that were gay that were a part of our church, uh, and they didn't really know. And when they came to me asking for perspective for them on what they should do in this issue in their life, you better believe that we counseled them exactly the way the Bible teaches us, that we counsel people. And we dove right into that conversation had long with them. But I think what's really important is that we, we don't get caught up in this trying to be when people demand an answer from us on a question that's political in its nature, that we don't feel this, this compelling force that we have to answer it just because we have a perspective on it right there.
Speaker 2 00:28:51 Yeah. That's it. You made me think of it. This is even more important. I think when considering answering a question immediately on social media, it's even worse because then you're opening yourself up to a barrage of other comments from people you don't even know. And, and you you'd have to spend, I've had friends that say they don't post anything politically on social media because they don't have time to be glued to their phone all day. They have to work and they have families and all of that as well. But I also think that to your point, when it comes to these topics, they can be handled call me old school, but a better with a one-on-one conversation, uh, you know, instead of, instead of publicly or on social media. So totally agree.
Speaker 0 00:29:35 Yeah. No, that's, that's really good. So sorry for my preaching there. I know I was getting, I think this is something we, I really found this to be something that was important. Uh, people would accuse me of being soft or not willing to stand up and say what I believe on things. I don't, I don't bow to that kind of pressure. I think that that's just something that, uh, that's something that I think is something between that. I see Jesus practicing that model, and it was really important to me. So let me finish with number six here. Uh, as we wrap up today, I think it's important if we want to build unity that we intentionally target diversity of thought. Um, here's something that I think a lot of people miss is that, uh, as we're in this digital era, uh, where so much of what we're doing right now, because of the pandemic, it's been forced online, uh, whether that's good or bad, I'll leave that up to individuals to decide.
Speaker 0 00:30:29 I think it can be a positive for churches. Um, so much of our conversation is happening online and the way that all of these conversations take place online, especially on social channels, is that they are, they're amplified with people that they think will agree with what you think or what you're saying. So for churches, what that looks like is that when you talk about anything online, when you, when you put anything out online, uh, it's going to recognize the kinds of people that are liking your posts and commenting on your page posts. And it's going to try and show that to more people like them, that it does. So let's say that you post something on your church, Facebook page, that's totally, it's not political. It's you, you put up a scripture graphic. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, right?
Speaker 0 00:31:22 He put that up there. Facebook's going to start to see, see who's liking that post. And if you're true, which has more conservatives than it does, uh, maybe leftists or liberals, you're going to start to see more of them hitting like, like, like on that post there, or sharing that post or commenting on that post and Facebook's algorithm. What it's going to do. It's going to take a look at the people that are liking it, and it's going to know to notice, well, these people all seem to be more conservative in their political views. So obviously this is content that should probably be more going more to conservative people, people that have. So it'll amplify it there and it'll start to shut it down on people that maybe have more left-leaning views on things. Then here's why this is important is if you just leave it to you, if you don't, if you're not intentional about this, your church is going to continue day after day to become more and more polarized and you'll have more and more like-minded people there.
Speaker 0 00:32:18 So I think that it is so important that we intentionally in churches try to reach people that are different from you. Now here, let me say this. The low hanging fruit, the easier people for you to reach today are gonna be people that are, they look like you, they talk like you, they think like, thank you. Those are always the easiest to reach people that speak your same are easier to reach just for natural reasons. If someone speaks Spanish, it's harder for me to reach them because I don't speak Spanish. So people that are different from us, there's just challenges that come with that there. But if you are not intentional about reaching people that are different from you, uh, you're not going to accidentally become more capable of reaching them in the future. So I think it's important, even though it might cost you more.
Speaker 0 00:33:02 It might be harder work now that you consistently try to reach people that have a diversity of thought a lot has been made of churches as we need to have desert diversity and race and gender and that kind of stuff. And I know churches are really growing in that area. The church is becoming less and less racially segregated, which is great. It's still a problem, but it's becoming better. I think that we're becoming more and more segregated on diversity of thought. And I think that's even actually more troubling and something we really have to watch out for. What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:33:32 Totally agree there again, partner. And I think that, you know, to cap off on this, every church that I talk to right now, they want to become diverse ethnically because they realize the racial tensions and they want to be, and they want to be diverse. I think with just the, like you said, even with people of a different thinking, um, they know that the church, I think every pastor, uh, who knows Jesus and is following the Bible, uh, they know that the church is supposed to be the most unified group of people on this earth. Uh, and obviously we've seen biblically that, uh, that the door was open for all races. God loves everyone. He looks at the heart, not the outward appearance we can go on and on. So we know that. Um, so I think that this is very important right now for, for pastors to hear is don't get caught up in this divisive thinking, cause it'll make, you know, good about reaching the people that need Jesus the most. And that's going to be people on the left or the right, um, you know, that need a relationship with God and they think differently than us. And so if we want the church to be unified in this, these kinds of dark times that we're having this kind of mindset is, uh, is needed. So that's good stuff.
Speaker 0 00:34:43 Yeah. I think Jesus did this too. I think as I, as I look at the way he went out and selected his, his apostles, he took a lot of young working class guys, you know, like a bunch of fishermen, those, you know, those, he was a carpenter and he got a bunch of fishermen. So people that were a lot like him, but he was also pretty intentional about getting a guy like Matthew in there. You remember Matthew was a tax collector. I think you could make a case from scripture. If you look at it that he was there as they were coming off boats from fishing, he was probably the guy that charged fishermen attacks for the fish. They pulled out of the sea. Right? So he, he went after someone that they probably hated as the guy that took their money. Every time they caught fish and collected tax and was on the total political opposite end of the spectrum from them, then he went after them.
Speaker 0 00:35:33 And then you see guys like Simon, that he goes after Simon, the zealot he's like the Antifa guy, like he brings, he intentionally brings Antifa guy the zealot into his group there. So what if he's burdened down stuff? He's he wants him to be a part of that. I think the gospel has this amazing, powerful reconciliation power to it. Uh, and, uh, pastors that are listening now is your chance. I think this is the, the ripest opportunity we have to give this thing that people crave so much right now is this unity and peace in their lives. And I think this is an opportunity that we may never see again in our lifetimes. And I think it's really important. We don't squander that right now. So, uh, yeah, this, as you go this week, my encouragement is, uh, bring unity, be peacemakers, uh, don't choose sides and, and bring unity to people that really, really need it.
Speaker 0 00:36:24 You have a great opportunity before you any final thoughts again. Yeah. Let's not miss this opportunity, you know, and, and also, you know, as we consult churches for growth here at reach right ongoing, this is something that will also help your church grow. Absolutely. Yeah. That's exactly right. So, well, thank you guys so much for being a part of this episode here, listening, uh, subscribers and people that listen and watch us weekly. Uh, we do this for you guys, so, uh, we'd really just do, uh, appreciate you continue your continued support with this. Uh, if you do like this show, uh, we encourage you to rate, review, subscribe like us, uh, do all those things wherever you get your podcasts, or if you watch us online. Uh, so thanks again for listening and we'll catch you guys next week. Thanks guys. Bye.
Speaker 1 00:37:11 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, right studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week.
