Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Nowadays, it seems like there is an app for just about everything. And one of the questions we get all the time is does my church really need a church app? Well, the answer might surprise you. We break it all down in today's episode. We hope this conversation will help your church reach more people and grow. This is the retried podcast.
Speaker 2 00:00:30 You're listening to the reach, right podcast, the show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help your church see more visitors and grow
Speaker 0 00:00:57 Hey guys, welcome to the rich right podcast episode number 83. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost, he and Hyatt what's up Thomas. Hey, and not too much, man. Excited to have this chat here today. I think it's an important conversation we're gonna be having, because I know you hear this question quite a bit, but the title of today's episode is why your church does not need a church app. Uh, so we don't mean to be too controversial on this. Uh, but uh, there are some churches probably that could use a church app, but the vast majority of our audience, I believe a church app is probably not something that they need, nor should they invest in or something that they should do. Um, you hear this quite a bit, right? You hear people talking about really feeling like they have this deep need to have an app, or tell me about that.
Speaker 0 00:01:48 Absolutely. Uh, probably still here quite a bit now, but boy, when church apps first came out, they were, it was more of a rage then, but yeah, absolutely. Still I hear it on a weekly basis. Um, probably, you know, I, the word app comes up, uh, probably in every other conversation of mine. Yeah, I would think so. What, what is the like, uh, I suspect that a lot of people feel like they need a church app. Right. But like, they haven't really thought through what a church app is actually going to do for them. And we'll talk some about that, but do you think I'm right? Is there like, do they, I guess, is it just because that's what everybody else is doing is why they feel like they need a church app or what are some of the reasons you hear? Why people need them?
Speaker 0 00:02:30 I think it's that? I think it's, they, they just, they, yeah, because everyone else is doing it. We've been told we need an app these days because, uh, if we, and, and I think it's also, they feel like there's, every church is trying to reach the next generation, right. Churches are aging all across America. Right. And, uh, they feel like, because you know, the younger generation is that they're on their iPhones or smartphones using apps daily that, oh, therefore we better have an app if we're going to reach these people. Yeah. I think that's a big reason. And a it's just, there's been a buzz about him because I think they were one of the, they still are probably one of the more recent technology technologies that have come out for churches. So yeah, I think what it is too, is that a lot of the very large churches, like, um, you know, like past to mega churches, right?
Speaker 0 00:03:16 The giga churches, the really big ones, your, uh, Steve Steven verdicts at elevation church, your life, church.tvs, they all have apps. Right. And I think in those circumstances, an app probably makes sense, but we know that the lion's share of our audience is not a 5,000 plus member church. I think that's probably about where the threshold is even a larger church of, of 2000 people. I think an app probably doesn't make sense for some reasons that we're going to get into today. But I would say that it makes a lot of sense. And I think people see that, you know, well, they have it there and they get a lot of momentum on their app and they have, uh, tens of thousands of downloads on it. So maybe we should be doing this here too. I think they have a very unique use case and situation that most of the churches in America and really across the world, they don't have that situation there.
Speaker 0 00:04:08 So for that reason, I think it makes sense for some larger churches, but for the vast majority of us, probably not, I would say, so why don't you kick us off though with the first reason today in about why we think most churches don't need a church app? Yeah. I'm excited to kick this one off because this is what I, I explained to many churches that because a lot of churches feel like apps are like an outreach tool and, uh, and they're really not, uh, they're inward focus. That's our first point here is that apps are inward focus and, and that, that might sound negative, but they're, they're an internal tool. So when you know, someone is looking for what we all need to be focused on first and foremost, as pastors and ministry leaders is reaching newer visitors, people that are don't have a church home and what those people are not doing, they're not going, oh my goodness.
Speaker 0 00:04:57 You know, I'm considering going to, uh, check out grace Bible church. I better get their app here before I show up on a Sunday. They're not going, they're not doing that. What they're doing is they're Googling churches near me. And they're usually ending up at the church's website. If they catch wind on social media, uh, they'll check them out a little there. They'll still go to the church's website. They're not saying, yeah, I'm going to download this app. That's. I mean, if you think about the apps that you use, you already were bought into something, whether or not it's Facebook, whether or not it's ESPN app, you already, when you, when I get an app, it's something that I already know I want to be a part of or do, uh, or look at continually. And that's why they're inward-focused and, uh, it also, because what they do and you can kind of dig into some of those details, they there, how they're an inward focus tool, right?
Speaker 0 00:05:46 Yeah. I mean, I think if I think about the way that I, um, I think about my phone, um, I am really reluctant to add any new apps. Cause I already have, like, I don't know, probably I haven't counted, but probably 60 or so apps on my phone. I have to scroll through pages and pages of apps. How many of them do I actually use, uh, in an average, let's say months, I'd say I probably use maybe 10, maybe 15 of them. And they given months different apps. And then I have all these things that I downloaded. Once I have things like, uh, I have a Scrabble score card keeper on my phone because one time, three years ago I played Scrabble with my family and I figured, Hey, that would be a fun way to do it. Let's just keep track of it on there.
Speaker 0 00:06:27 And then I have one for another game we played called Corcal. Uh, so if you play, quirk will let us know in the comments is pretty fun game for families with you were play cricket beforehand. I haven't, I've heard of you haven't but get ready to live, like anyway, get that app and then that's it if I don't like it. So yeah, but I have so many different apps on my phone. And so I, I kind of, I don't know if I have like this app, a guilt or something that I, I'm not going to download something and have to uninstall it and all the work that goes with it. And here's the thing is that, like you said, nobody, because of that, nobody is downloading your app before they visit your church. It's almost like a, a level of commitment. We should put that in like our church assimilation processes that they, they, they give and they serve and they have downloaded our app or whatever that would be.
Speaker 0 00:07:12 It's almost that kind of level, uh, if you do those kinds of things. So I think if your goal is to reach more people and that really should be the goal, I think most churches have a front door problem and not a backdoor problem, getting more people in to the fold and kind of bringing them into the family. That is the challenge and app won't do much for that. It could be a tool for some of the people that are there, but there's some other reasons why we don't think that's really the case. But yeah, I think they're primarily inwardly focused. Again, you were saying there's nothing wrong with that. I think people, you need to have some focus on people that are a part of your church, nothing wrong with that. But if your goal is to reach people outside of your church and app will do less for a very specific kind of very large church, it'll do very little for you.
Speaker 0 00:07:57 Right? Exactly. Awesome. Next one. Up, it's a apps that are built as custom. They rarely are custom. Uh, oftentimes we're told, uh, that, um, you can get a custom church app, but really that is not what's what's being offered. In most cases, we know this industry pretty well, a truly custom church app, the ones that you get on to get elevation church's app or life church's app, both of those places have full-time dedicated staff that have worked with people that are, they're keeping the app up to date. They've probably outside contracted work for this. We're talking on those sites that scale hundreds of thousands of dollars have gone into the development of your app. If you're a church of 300 people or 50 people, or even 1500 people, you probably don't have a lot of business spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars building a, a church app.
Speaker 0 00:08:52 Um, it probably isn't the best way to spend your money on those kinds of things there. So we think that it's probably, uh, it's probably, it's almost certainly not custom. If you're telling told you can get a new church app for only, um, oh, I don't know for only a thousand dollars or it's only $150 a month. It also certainly is not a custom church app in that kind of a case. So, um, we think it's really something that we should, you should know before you jump into this fold and you're probably not getting something custom there. And boy is that word thrown around, uh, quite loosely custom, you know, with everything, uh, in, in technology and just in, in general, you know, even Carter, we customize customize your car, whatever it is that word, you know, it's so broad. And I think that, you know, uh, in, in maybe in a pastor's mind or someone who's getting an app, you know, they think it's custom just because they can kind of colorize it to, uh, uh, their church's colors or put their logo on it.
Speaker 0 00:09:48 Right. And that might be a little bit of customization, but it's not truly, truly customer. Right? No, totally different. Yeah. So be aware when you're told you're getting a custom app, because unless you're spending, I'd say at a minimum $20,000 type going through the, like, just for instance, just getting approved by the app store in apple and Google play store, that is a huge process that takes a ton of work for churches to navigate. And it'll cost you thousands of thousands of dollars. So anything sub $20,000 in setup, it's almost certainly not accustomed church app. That's good. That's good. Well, I'll hit the next one. And that's the church apps are usually additional platforms. So, uh, and what we mean by that is I think, well, I'll take a step back. Every church I talk to, they really would like to minimalize, minimize rather, uh, you know, how many different things they're doing with technology as possible.
Speaker 0 00:10:40 So this is one thing to consider. You're really getting an additional platform or, uh, think of it as an additional whole new set up with something. Um, and so, you know, it is a going to be a place where you're going to have to have an additional platform for sermons and events and, and, uh, do a little bit of double duty there if you will. So, um, so that is one thing to bear in mind too, when you're considering an app, right? Yeah, I think so. I think really, um, if you think about it, like you're saying really what an app is, if you're, um, with most of these app companies out there, and we don't want to speak poorly of them, I think that they're really doing their best to advance the purpose of the kingdom. They do serve a purpose for a few churches.
Speaker 0 00:11:21 I think I just wouldn't recommend it to most churches. Uh, but what most of these companies do, the way it works is you go in and you download their app. So you download the church app companies app, uh, and then you tell your members of your church, Hey, go and find the search for the church app company or whatever it is, whatever app company you're working with. You ask them to go find their software. And then they download that that's, what's installed on their phone. It'll say the name of the company, uh, whether that be, uh, there's tons of them out there, but it would say the name of the company, and then they would go in and they would find their church or your church in that, in that list on that particular church app companies app. So really what they're doing is they're just, they've found your channel.
Speaker 0 00:12:12 If you will, on a broader church app, it really isn't all that different from what people are already doing on Facebook. You know, they go onto the Facebook app and then they'll find your church's page on that app. And then they can do whatever they can listen to messages and they can find events and all those things that they want to do on there. So in essence, it really is just another platform that people will have to download an ad. And I would say in most cases, your church website, Facebook, uh, if, to some extent, YouTube, Instagram, they're already doing all of the things that the app would already do. So it really, to me, doesn't make a lot of sense to go that route. Um, just because it really is another platform that people have to download when they already have things to do the same thing on their phone.
Speaker 0 00:13:01 Right. That's exactly it. Now I don't have any much dad there. I think we hit it all. Yep. That's it. Next one up is that church apps, aren't expensive. It's a big investment to do a church app, and that's not even talking about the big custom approach yet. Obviously most of our audience isn't ready to fork over $300,000 and do a huge custom church app on those things. But even if you're doing one of these pre-made ones, there's a couple of different pricing models out there. Both of them have some kind of costs. One is you're going to pay between 75 and $300 on doing an app where your church would be. One of the ones you can select from thousands of churches that have also purchased that app software. They're basically another platform for your church there. So there's that cost you'll spend. I don't know a lot of churches.
Speaker 0 00:13:50 That's a to some, it may not matter that much, you know, what is $150, but to a lot of churches, that's a big difference. $150 is you could do a lot with that. And if you don't have to pay it, that would be better. So alternatively, some do a model that is more like a tied to your, a lot of them are online. Giving companies actually I'd say most apps now have online giving component because I think that's an important part of any app, which makes sense. But what they do is while they may not charge you a large fee for the app itself, you're kind of tied into their online giving platform. And some of those are more expensive. The standard non-profit rate is going to be somewhere between two and two and a half percent, and maybe they're charging 2.7 to 3% on their transactions.
Speaker 0 00:14:38 So you're paying for it kind of on the backend, but higher fees when it comes to the apps on things there. So in the end, you're always going to pay for your church app and they tend to be so expensive and you probably have a lot of functionality there already. Yeah, that's good. I think that's a good point with your ending on that. Just that, that you already have a lot of that in place. So a good, well, I'll get the next one. And that is that a church apps aren't the best way to do push notifications. Um, so that's been a big thing in recent years. I know, I hear that about, you know, uh, can we do push notifications when churches talk to me about our services and everything. So, uh, and maybe you have some good insight on why and what, why they're not the best Y Y their push notification like a church app as well.
Speaker 0 00:15:27 I don't even think it's not that they're not the best. I'm sure that it's, that I haven't had a lot of experience with all of the church app companies out there using them, or the way to do it is what I meant specifically. Yeah. I just think that, like, it's not the best way. I think it's more just that there's other ways that are already free and you have them on there really push notification. I think that just for our audience, that maybe you're not totally sure what that is. That's anytime you get a little thing that pings you on your phone to let you know that something was going on. And so the most common push notification is a text message. Every time you get a text message, you get a little ping and it says, Hey, who texted you? And a little snippet of what the message is, but we all get them probably from, unless you've turned them off from Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and all the different channels that we use, you get a little push notification on there.
Speaker 0 00:16:15 So I would say that all of those platforms already have push notifications enabled. And so I think for most churches, rather than having someone go and download your app, it's easier to say, Hey, go into our Facebook page and then click on that notify button. So that every time we make an update on a, of a new sermon that goes onto our Facebook page or a new event is added on there, that you'll get automatically notified that comes up as a push notification. So it really is. People have to opt into those no matter what. Uh, and I just think that you already have the, they have it on their phone. And honestly, um, here's one of the things that we have we've seen is that not everybody is going to download your church app. Even if you wrap a church app, I would say that most people still won't have your truth.
Speaker 0 00:17:03 I haven't downloaded ours. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, does your church have a, an app? Is it their own app or is it a, is it a it's their own, you're the size that does it, right? 8,000 plus member church. So that does make sense. Yeah. You don't have it on your phone and you're a committed, fully committed give on give online and, and, uh, but, uh, yeah, I just do it through our church's website cause we have a very mobile geared website. So, so I think what pastors sometimes think is, oh, you know, if I just can get an app, then I can notify everybody in our church. Whenever we have a really important announcement we have to make, or a reminder, uh, I still think you're going to reach more people with a notification on Facebook that because more people are going to have Facebook, then we'll have you I'd say that the minority of your church will have downloaded your app.
Speaker 0 00:17:52 So it will not do what you hope it did. And you already have tools to send out push notifications. I think a text message is probably the best way to do it. A mass texting kind of platform for your church. So more about that in another episode. Yeah. There you go. That's good. That's it. All right. I'll get the next one here. Uh, one of the problems with church apps is that they require double data entry. In most cases, uh, they notoriously do not play well with quality church websites. I will say now most app companies offer a very basic church website that kind of has kind of a tag along that comes with the app. You can also get a church website. And so I would say that very few churches will be satisfied with a straight template website. Like those typically are, and maybe they have some customization opposite options of different app companies out there.
Speaker 0 00:18:47 But most of the time you're going to get a off the shelf pre-made church website that will not be a great tool for you to reach people with that kind of outward focus there. So yeah, if that's the case and when you have just a pre-made website, then sometimes there they'll automatically pull information off of the website and put it onto your app. But for the lion's share of churches that are using a platform like Squarespace, like WordPress, our preference, uh, or any other normal content management system out there, you're going to have to put your sermons on your website, on YouTube, on your app onto Facebook. You'll have to be at one more place to put your sermons one more place to create events, one more place to do all of the content updates that you want to do. And if in my experience, churches are already mostly failing at that, right.
Speaker 0 00:19:36 Always behind on getting content everywhere. And how often do we see the, the last update on the events page or the blog was from nine months ago or something like that. So you're already struggling with that. You don't need another place to put this content. So double data entry is a big problem with apps, I'd say, yeah, that is an a, you know, I've talked to so many pastors and ministry leaders and, and that comes up in every conversation is just, you know, they're already their church admin or whoever it is that are, are making updates to that. Whether or not it's their website or social media, they're already, like you said, overwhelmed. And the question I get is like, you know, do we have to do double duty on updating a church calendar? Our, our, you know, our secretary is already just behind on all of that.
Speaker 0 00:20:19 So that's a good point. And something to strongly consider if you're considering an app is, you know, count the cost as far as the work it's going to take. So absolutely good. The next one, and that's the church apps are rarely used, you know, and there's a lot of data out there on this statistical data and everything, but it's funny getting back to conversations. I have, um, I, I talked to pastors and ministry leaders day in and day out all over the country. And whenever we have this discussion about apps, I do ask that question, you know, often, um, how are your members using your app a lot? Do you follow up on that? I usually hear not so much. Um, we have an app, I here we have an app. Um, we have some members that use it and give through it a few, but, uh, but we're not using it the way, uh, we should be using it or not using it enough.
Speaker 0 00:21:06 Yeah. Yeah. I really feel for church leaders, I think, cause I, I totally get the idea. Like, I, it totally makes sense that I, I, on paper, it seems like such a good idea that we have a one place on our phones where people can go and do this. I think that the, you know, your website also lives on your phone, right? Like, so teaching people to have a link directly to their website on their home screen where they can click on it and you can get onto your church website. I think that's something easy to get over that. But honestly, the idea is it's really hard to execute it as well as it seems like you're going to be able to, when people are buying church apps and we have seen so much buyer's remorse when it comes to that, just because they've put in all this money, they feel kind of tied to it.
Speaker 0 00:21:49 It's really hard to change platforms, or once you've added something like this, it's hard to take it away because you hear those stories of the, you know, the, the 15% of your church that does use it. They probably really like it. And to take that away or stop paying for it, it's going to kind of ruffle some feathers there. So the fact is, is that in general, they're not, as they're not used as much as you would think they would be. And so I think for most churches, we want to try and save you that, uh, that challenge there of, of trying to start and stop and do those things, right. We think your money is probably better invested into building a better mobile experience on a website, because again, that can do everything that a church app can do. So it really is probably your best can also be an outreach tool.
Speaker 0 00:22:31 Absolutely. And so visitors will see too. That's right. So does, and kind of with a question here today, as we kind of wrap things up, those are the different areas that we kind of came up with as to why you don't even have, but tell us what you think about your church. Does your church have an app? Uh, we'd love to know in the comments or let us know or send us an angry email if you feel like we're totally off base on this here, but this is just kind of our experience. I really feel this is the way things are going. Um, I, it's kind of weird to say that knowing that there's apps are not done, we're not anti app. I think apps are, are still going to be used. I just think that the average local church, we're not in a world where that it makes sense for most of them right now.
Speaker 0 00:23:10 But please let us know in the comments below, does your church use an app? Do you like your app? Do you feel like I'd be really interested in as kind of an informal survey? What percentage of your church has downloaded and then what percentage of your church regularly uses your church app? There? We'd love to know in the comments. So thank you guys so much for being a part of the retried family here. Uh, if this episode has been helpful or if you feel like we've, uh, earned a subscription, we'd love it. If you would subscribe, uh, and then let us know any other comments or feedback or the future shows you want to hear us or topics you want to hear us cover in future shows. Let us know that in the comments as
Speaker 2 00:23:45 Thank you guys so much for being a part of the retried family, and we hope to catch you next week.
Speaker 3 00:23:49 See you,
Speaker 2 00:23:52 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, right studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week.
