Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Well, for churches, visitors are a gift from the Lord, but sometimes churches do things that actually scare away visitors. And in this conversation, we're gonna unpack eight of the biggest mistakes that churches make that scare visitors away. Let's do this. You are listening to The Reach Right podcast, the show dedicated to helping your church reach more people and grow. Well, hey guys. I'm Thomas.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 And I'm Ian.
Speaker 0 00:00:28 And today we're talking about eight mistakes that churches make that scare away visitors. Uh, I have been, uh, scared away a time or two from churches. I've had the pleasure to going to many churches. I don't know I've ever actually been scared away, but <laugh>, right? Maybe if I was a different person, uh, I might be scared away from, uh, some of the things that I've seen churches do over the years. Uh, I know, uh, you and I, Ian, we've pastored together. We've visited churches together in our lives and Yep. Um, we've had a lot of, uh, funny experiences and then working with churches as long as we have, we've heard some of the craziest things Oh, yes. Uh, that we hear churches do, um, over the years. Yeah. So maybe we'll get to share some of those stories today. But yeah. Uh, we came up with a list of eight things that we see, uh, that are somewhat common, uh, and we have some kind of, uh, signs to watch for on each one of them that maybe you're falling victim to that. So, uh, yeah. Let's, uh, I guess we just kind of go ahead and dig in, huh? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:01:24 Let's just dig right in. And, uh, this first one here, well, you know the saying, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. So is your church giving a bad first impression? It is a big deal, uh, with everything that we do. And let's just face it, I think this is even bigger, a bigger deal for churches, because we know a lot of people when visitors come in, they have a lot of apprehension or, you know, preconceived notions of what church is gonna be like. If it's someone who hasn't been to a church in years, really, when they walk in, that first impression is really important to make them feel comfortable to, uh, help them ease into the, the whole start of the service. So, you know, so this, this has a lot to do with what, how your building is set up.
Speaker 2 00:02:06 Now, we know there's, there's awesome church buildings and then there's churches just starting up that are having to, well, you and I, when we pastored together, we had to meet in a community center when we were starting our church here in the Austin, Texas area. When you were down here. And, you know, we understand there's some limitations, but you can still, you know, control a lot of what happens. Like, for example, when someone comes in, what's the entrance look like? Do you, is there poor signage and directions inside the facility? You know, are people gonna know where to take their kids right away? Um, you know, when they walk in, is it clear where they're going? What's the atmosphere feel like? Um, and so other than the physical parts of it, it could be, it's obviously your greeters, your greeters too. Your greeting team. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:02:52 The people that are up there, that's the first impression as well. Um, so yeah. So it reminds me of, uh, something that you shared a long time ago. Speaking of funny things we've experienced at churches. Now, I didn't go with you this time, I think it was you and your family, but I do remember you guys, your kids were a little younger at this time. You guys were probably struggling to get out the door and you got, you went to this church. We won't mention the church. It was here in the Austin area, and you walked in and what did the greeter tell you?
Speaker 0 00:03:20 <laugh>? She, she said, Hey, pastor, so and so, the, the pastor there, he really doesn't like it when people come late. <laugh> was the first impression I had. That's it. Visiting this church there. So yeah, it was, uh, yeah, I less than, less than Stellar. I think that's a, that was a bad first impression. I mean, I, I, I know as a pastor, I don't like it when people come, you don't late. None of us, like when people show up late, and yeah. But that's just something that happens and telling your visitors that they shouldn't show up late. That's maybu people,
Speaker 2 00:03:46 Uh, rebuke them right when they come in. Start
Speaker 0 00:03:48 With the rebuke. That's, uh, that's another way we make a ninth one. Um, yeah. And early rebuke we will say. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:54 Yep. Yep. So that's, uh,
Speaker 0 00:03:55 Yeah, I think you're right. Um, the first impression, I think, obviously this is a no-brainer. Like, it, it goes, um, you know, we, we know this ahead of time here. I learned this, like remember one of my first pastors when I was an associate pastor right out of Bible college, he had a really big emphasis on what does the walkway from someone's car to the front door? What is that experience like? And yeah, like when we would have little weeds popping up or something like that, it would be really frustrating. And so as the associate pastor at a medium-sized church, that means, uh, Thomas go and pull weeds and <laugh>. That's kind of what that turned into there. But, uh, I, I really appreciated that. I think that the first impression for so many people now is even before they show up for the first time.
Speaker 0 00:04:38 Right. Um, it's probably happening on your social media platforms. Speci definitely on your website. Yeah. Right. What is that first experience like there that is setting the tone for their entire first visit in most cases there? So, um, getting those things under control, taking a hard, I'd say even like an outside look at that. Sometimes it's good. Like to, I, I've always wondered like if churches, I've heard of this before, but churches having secret shoppers right. Might be a really good piece of feedback that pastors could get. And so if you have someone that maybe doesn't go to your church and you just ask 'em to show up and tell you about their experience, that might be good. But I think just having someone who isn't a part of your church yet or isn't on your staff, specifically giving you feedback on your website about what their, you know, what their experience is, their first time getting on there, what they think of your church, that's really invaluable information. So something to consider there.
Speaker 2 00:05:29 Absolutely. So it's online, it's, uh, it's the, it's the parking lot through the entrance and the people <laugh> Yep. All of that combined. Yep. Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:05:38 The, the next one I think goes along with it. So the second thing you need to watch out for that might be scaring the visitors is a lack of a warm welcome. Yeah. Uh, on a, on a Sunday morning or whatever you do service there. Yeah. Uh, this is something that I think that we kind of understand, but there is almost nothing worse than someone walking into your building and not having any interaction with anybody. Yeah. And just trying to find their way and kind of their next steps as they walk in there. Yeah. So having an established team that is there ready to help your visitors make that, make that transition from someone who's just walking in there has no idea where to go and what you have for them and where to sit and who's who, or any of that information, helping people kind of make that transition, I think is so important. Uh, trying to, to make that switch there. What do you think?
Speaker 2 00:06:27 Yeah, no, I do, I think that's, that's obviously vital. And I mean, again, that goes with kind of some of the things we were saying. I mean, a warm, genuine welcome. Um, it, you know, you don't want people walking in and the greeter just holding the door open and not say anything. Uh, yeah. You know, or <laugh>, I don't know. I'm just thinking off the top of my head there with that. But, um, but yeah, I think just making sure your system for that, making sure that, you know, we know volunteers come and go. I'd, I'd say make sure that, you know, I wanna say come and go. We, there's faithful volunteers and yes, they come and go, but at the same time, making sure everyone's kind of on the same page, that you have a process that stays consistent, uh, when it comes to a warm welcome and someone coming in for the first time. So
Speaker 0 00:07:11 Here's what I, I see usually is that, um, the, the thing that would drive me nuts as a pastor is when we would have people from within our church that knew each other, standing kind of off in their little groups. I don't want to call em clicks 'cause I'm four. Oh, I
Speaker 2 00:07:25 Said it.
Speaker 0 00:07:26 Yeah. So clicks are, are like, holy huddle,
Speaker 2 00:07:27 Holy huddle,
Speaker 0 00:07:29 Holy huddles. Here here's, I, I have a, a philosophy on, on cliques. I think that, you know, maybe a lot of people would've accused Jesus and his disciples of being a clique 'cause they were always together, right? And so, in a way, I'm kind of pro click. I want people to have really life-giving relationships, but when it's at the expense of someone who's trying to get in or become a part of the church, that's when it becomes a danger. So I think what happens in a lot of churches though, is that people are, are there on Sunday morning and they just start to get uncomfortable. They start to wonder, uh, I'm kind of, I, I've only been here for a year. I don't know if I, that person, if they're new here, I don't really know what to say if this is their first day or if they've been here a hundred times. I don't wanna put my foot in my mouth, so I'm not gonna say anything. And that really is something we have to get over. And you have to train people to get over that kind of feeling there. So, yeah. Um, I think that, you know, really, really being intentional teaching your people, but having a dedicated greeting team, right. That's good at this and it really knows how to handle it. I think that's where you, you get this solution here.
Speaker 2 00:08:31 Absolutely. Well, next one I'll tackle here overly aggressive outreach. That's kind of an interesting term. Let's unpack that a little bit. But, uh, obviously you want, you know, uh, there to be some intentionality when newer visitors come from your people. And, and that's something that, you know, should be, uh, discussed and, and from the pulpit and also just through discipleship and whatever your assimilation process is. But sometimes people try a little bit too hard <laugh>, and so, yeah. Uh, or sometimes it's a little too aggressive. So these can be things like, you know, immediate requests for personal details or signups. You know, someone's come in, they're not mm-hmm. <affirmative> necessarily interested in signing up for an event yet. Uh, their first or even second time, maybe high pressure, you know, tactics on newcomers. Um, you know, this is funny. It makes me think of an experience I had at a church, um, where we were there for the first time.
Speaker 2 00:09:26 And my, my family and I, and my wife and I, the kids were in the kids' children's church, but my wife and I were in the, in the main service. And I can tell someone from across the way was really intent and looking, looking at us, but, but oddly like, you know, staring. And they were uncomfortably making their way over to us. And this was before the service even started. And, uh, and when they got to us, they just said, Hey, wanna go to lunch after church <laugh>? And I was just like, okay, well we'd, what's your name? <laugh>. So, wait, I don't know you yet. Uh, but, and I could tell they were kind of put up and they felt forced. And you never want to, you, you want authenticity. Yeah. And people to be natural and not overly aggressive. So, another funny example that I experienced in person. So yeah,
Speaker 0 00:10:15 Back when I first, uh, took the church, I pastored last, it was, uh, the Journey Church in Madison, Wisconsin was the name of the church. I went there in 2013. It was a very small church when I got there. Uh, and we, I remember this, when you're a small church, it kind of, it can be really challenging 'cause your people, like, they desperately they know that visitors are sacred. And so when we have visitors that would come into our church, we would, I, I would watch our people just get so excited and they'd start to, you know, and, and I remember this one time so distinctly where we had this couple, uh, come and we, we rarely saw visitors. Maybe like one family a month would kind of pop in when I, we first got there. Yeah. Uh, and this couple comes in and I remember after service people were so excited that everybody, like, we were like 10 people surrounding this one couple, oh.
Speaker 0 00:11:05 And I heard them get invited by three different people to three different community groups that were happening there Oh gosh. That week. And just, there was this really hard pitch that they were getting. Guess what? They never came back again. I imagine. Because it, it was something that was a, a totally aggressive outreach system that we had going on there. So anyway, I think that that's something to watch out for. Uh, just be being cautious with that and helping people to have those on-ramps into your church. But yeah, like letting it, letting them do that at, at their pace, you know, trying to encourage them to take a step, um, and not letting it go on for too long. But if it's on their first Sunday and, and you're inviting them to give you all their information and to join everything you have, it's probably a little bit premature. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:11:49 Agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 0 00:11:50 Yeah. Alright. Next one, uh, is inaccessible language and jargon. Mm-hmm. Um, this is something that we, we do often in churches. I think you probably have heard this before. Yeah. There's two things that I would call out here. So one is more of like, um, inappropriate. Inappropriate, yeah. Don't be inappropriate in your language, but also don't be, um, too hyper spiritual or too, uh, religious in the things that you say. Right. Um, I think that's something that we have to be cautious for. The one that I see even more though, is I see churches often use inside language mm-hmm. <affirmative> instead of things that are just the common way that we say things. So that same church I was talking about before, we have community groups. Uh, yeah. It was Journey community groups were the name of them. Uh Right. And we often internally would abbreviate that to J C G or J cgs.
Speaker 0 00:12:43 Yeah. And so, uh, I, I remember working with our leadership team there to making sure that whenever we would talk about this to someone that isn't a part of our church yet, or especially from the pulpit or doing announcements Yeah. That we never use that term J C G, because that doesn't mean anything. Nobody knows what A J C G is. Right. And every church has some kind of an acronym or some kind of a name for your, um, your assimilation classes or your community groups, or your Sunday schools or your youth ministry. Be very, I, I know it feels boring, but just be very plain with it and say the actual, the definition of the term rather than the slogan name or worse the abbreviation of the thing. So call them community groups or student ministry instead of calling it the, you know, firehouse uh, service or something like that, that nobody knows what that is. Use the common language. I think that's something that kind of gives you a leg up and it will help visitors better understand what's happening there.
Speaker 2 00:13:39 Yeah. The term, uh, that came to mind too is Christianese. And I know that's not just, uh, you know, from a, you know, first time visitor standpoint, we as Christians can use that terminology, but you gotta think like this, someone coming in for the first time Yeah. They may have no experience with church. Right. They're not gonna understand internal things. So plain, simple language. Agreed. For sure. So, but, um, well, good. Next one I guess I'll get is overemphasis on money. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a big one. Um, now again, we know giving is important, you know, um, we have, we have been several of these podcasts. Thomas talked about, uh, you know, not shying away from preaching on tithing and addressing tithing and donations and all of that, but, you know, probably a good idea to think of new visitors. They're probably not wanting to have an aggressive <laugh>, you know, approach to that type of thing.
Speaker 2 00:14:35 Putting, put a put on them so to speak. So things like, you know, just asking a direct money request to first time visitors. Really bad idea. Um, maybe don't pass out the offering plate twice if it, uh, if it comes back empty the first time. <laugh>, we've seen that. We've seen that actually online where, uh, the offering plate goes out. And then, uh, I, I guess when the, the ushers collect it, nothing was in there, they send it out again. Uh, yeah. Let's not do stuff like that. And then, and then I think too, just when you are, you know, preaching from across the, from the pulpit rather, and on on the platform, you know, regular highlighting of financial needs all the time. Could be that could be, you know, especially for that person that visited once and maybe they let it go and they heard it and they come again. And then you're also talking about money that next week. Okay. That could be a turnoff as well. So,
Speaker 0 00:15:29 Yeah. Um, I, I think this is something that we probably, I think a lot of people are afraid of being this way, so I don't want to encourage people to do the opposite. Right. So I think that there's a lot of people that are afraid to talk about giving and you still need to talk about it. Uh, so don't hear this as a, you know, stop talking about giving at your church. Um, that's not what we're trying to say with this here. Yeah. Um, what we are saying is that when it becomes the main point, or if you do weird things around giving, just because that's what you do as a church, be cautious of that. I went to a church once where, um, the pastor at the close of the sermon, um, he would say something to the effect of, Hey, now we're gonna move into our time of offering. And the church was so trained that when he said those terms, that word, everybody would go Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:18 <laugh>. And everyone would scream and like start to like, celebrate. This is kind of, and I, I get what you're doing. Like I, I understand that that is something that is to be celebrated. It is an act of warship. Yeah. But it's clear that that's something like that, that's weird. Right? Yeah. That's weird to do. If you, especially if you're an outside visitor and you're just sitting there and you're looking around like, why is everybody screaming like this? It's kind of like what Paul says in Corinthians when he is speaking about speaking in tongues with no interpretation, that everybody's gonna start to think you're nuts. Yeah. I think that's exactly what would happen in a, in that situation. So, um, I, I think I've seen weird things around this. Just be careful with that. And what it is, is it's putting an overemphasis on these things and I think visitors can, can pick up on that.
Speaker 0 00:17:03 And that's a pretty quick turnoff. Again, not saying don't talk about giving, never apologize for talking about giving. That's some of one of my life lessons that I've been taught. Uh, but if that's becoming the main thing in your service or if it's something that you emphasize to visitors, especially because one more tip, um, I found in ministry that it was good, a good practice. And I, I can see a case against this too, but it's a good practice to tell visitors that they are not expected to and even ask them to not give on their first visit. Just getting that out there in the open, if you're a plate passing church or something, that visitors are gonna walk by a, um, a offering box, make sure they know that there is no obligation. Not only only is there no obligation, it's not expected. And almost like asking them not to give on their first trip. Yeah. Just so there's no confusion on that. Takes the, I think that'll probably be good in the long run.
Speaker 2 00:17:58 Yeah. Agreed. And we talked about, uh, one more thing I'll mention to that. I think that's all great, Thomas', when we were talking about, uh, a bad first impression, how this also starts online on your website, and it reminded me as well, um, of some, you and I have seen thousands of church websites in our time. There was, uh, one website that, uh, on the homepage, it was the pastor in a very nice suit and nothing against pastors in nice suits do that. Uh, but leaning against a golden pillar. I don't think this golden pillar was a part of the on their church property, but it was somehow in the photo and then underneath his feet is where you entered the amount to give. And, uh, that was right on the homepage. Again, that was overly aggressive. When someone comes to the homepage on your website, we're not saying don't make online giving visible.
Speaker 2 00:18:46 You want it visible. But I've also seen the main emphasis one church, you reminded me when you said everyone, uh, jumped up and screamed when it was time for the offering. One church's website. I saw right on the main area, the main graphic of the website when someone came in, it was a big section carved out for giving, and they called it instead of like, the link to, to give, it was called the joy button. Uh, and, uh, and so, you know, it was kind of in that same vein again, God loves a cheerful giver. Yes. We know that. You know, that's scriptural. But uh, at the same time, you don't wanna, you know, someone
Speaker 0 00:19:22 Over the head. We do weird things when it comes to giving, don't we? It's funny how we do that. It
Speaker 2 00:19:25 Is, it is.
Speaker 0 00:19:26 So, alright, next one, uh, also should be pretty obvious, but poor childcare, uh, children's ministry, youth programming, these kinds of things. Yeah. Uh, this really should go without saying. Um, but if you do not have clear instructions for parents, uh, that help them through that process and that you, and you're not really putting your attention into what you're doing with their kids, I think it will cost you, uh, in the long run. Yeah. Kids are the most important thing to every parent is the most important thing that any parent has. And so if we do not take that seriously, invest in this area and really make it a cornerstone of a visitor experience, it's gonna wind up costing us. So I don't have a ton to say about this just because it's something that I think is really obvious, a no brainer. I've seen it not be great before, and I get it at small churches, it's really hard to execute this. You'll have the same people doing children's ministry every week and recruiting volunteers is hard. And I I'm saying it's easy, uh, but if, if this is something, a lot of times almost every church we talk to, they'll tell us that their primary target and people that they wanna reach are younger
Speaker 2 00:20:35 Families,
Speaker 0 00:20:35 Young families and Right. You know, if your children's ministry doesn't declare that, if it's not making that obvious, it will cost you those young families you're going after. So, uh, important to get right.
Speaker 2 00:20:46 Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't have anything to add there too, because again, that should be something that is, uh, kind of a no-brainer. So this next one though, here I think is very important, and we've seen a lot of churches struggle with this is not providing follow up or connection opportunities to visitors. Hmm. So, uh, we know that, you know, when we consult with churches, Thomas, as we have for years, when we often ask about an assimilation process, we hear things like it's in the works. We're working on that. Um, now we meet a lot of churches that have a great assimilation process and we celebrate that as well. But, um, I think, and, and we're not just talking about assimilation as far as, you know, someone, uh, getting baptized or, uh, getting into a small group or serving right away when they've only visited once.
Speaker 2 00:21:34 But what is that next step for a visitor? You know, and, and if you're missing the mark, some things to kind of look out for this would be, I mean, do you have, are you limited with resources for first time guests? You know, whether or not it's someone who's just making a decision for Christ. Do you have something to put in their hand to help them in that walk? Whether or not it's a book, a discipleship tool, something like that. Um, if people are telling you, Hey, we've, we've been coming, we came a couple times. How, how do we get involved? If people are asking that you're maybe not doing such a great job of that. And so, and of course if you're people are going right out the back door, so to speak, they're visiting and not returning might be a good indication that you're not providing some of those next steps and on-ramps.
Speaker 0 00:22:19 Yeah. I, I'm gonna get the next one 'cause it kind of goes in the same vein, so it's Yeah. You're, you're not providing, uh, clear follow up, uh, or connection opportunities. Yeah. And usually that's tied to having very unclear next steps, which is the last Yeah. Eighth and final one. Um, this is something that we talk about and most of our podcast episodes is something that I think if you get one thing from the Reach write podcast or anything we do on reach write is that you need to call people to action. Yes. You need to ask people to do something. You need to, in this case, have clear next steps of what do I do. So I think this is a mistake that a lot of churches make is that in their normal liturgy process, we forget to tell someone that's there for the first time, what is the next right step to take.
Speaker 0 00:23:06 Uh, so, you know, making sure that they know that, hey, we'd love to, for you to fill out this card. Uh, we'd love for you to stop by the information booth or the welcome area at the end of service. Uh, and then having like something next, it has to be more than just, hey, um, hope it was good, you'll come back next week. Right. Giving people an opportunity, and they're not gonna say yes to this in most cases, but having them having a little baby step they can take for a next step in the process. So maybe it's, uh, pizza with the pastors or something like that that you do once a month that it takes 30 minutes after service and it's a chance to make connection or Yep. Maybe it's some kind of a, I don't know, you'll call it different things, but some kind of a growth track or roots, right.
Speaker 0 00:23:49 Or starting point or class thing. Yeah. So people kind of, whatever your membership process pathway looks like or something like that. Just having that next step clearly defined and making sure that there's no confusion on what someone would do if they want to become a part of this church or this, this church family here. So, um, yeah. Yeah. So I think those two really go hand in hand having not having a, a follow up or connection process and then not having clear next steps. Yeah, I think those two things are really vital if you want to make sure visitors vital become people that are actually fully committed members at your church there.
Speaker 2 00:24:23 Agreed, agreed. Nothing to add. I think we hit hopefully, uh, all of those, the nails on the head there with each one of those points and hopefully helpful to our listeners and watchers.
Speaker 0 00:24:33 Yeah. I'm sure I've made all of these mistakes at some point in my ministry career. You pastor for any length of time, there's, yeah, you get kind of a, a real, um, a a desire to, to, I don't wanna call it critical, but you, you're very quick to kind of watch what you're doing there at your church and making sure that all of these areas are really dialed in. And if you keep an eye on your, what's happening at your church, you'll start to see some of these things. You'll start to see, hey, our children's ministry isn't quite getting to where it needs to be. Or the way we talked about giving this week was probably a little bit, it might have been a little awkward for someone who's a first time visitor. So yeah, really keeping an eye on these things, it's not gonna be something, every one of us will have something here we can work on.
Speaker 0 00:25:12 Oh yeah. Uh, but I think keeping an eye on this and maybe even recalling some of these once a year. Yeah. Maybe just considering them and watching, Hey, where are we creeping up in these areas? I think that'll go a long way with this. So, uh, absolutely. That's it though. Um, if this has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you would hit the subscribe button, uh, rate review, do all those things wherever you're watching or listening to the Reach. Right. Podcast. Uh, we want to thank you guys so much. Also let us know in the comments, is there something that you have seen be a huge mistake that scares away visitors? Yeah. We'd love to hear about what those are. Also, if you have any questions for us, that's where most of these topics come from on the Retry podcast. Yeah. Drop us a question in the comments. We'd love to maybe consider it for a future episode. Uh, thanks for being a part of the Retrade family and we'll see you next week. See you.
