10 Pastoral Leadership Skills for Navigating Modern Church Challenges

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Let's face it, pastoral leadership is not without its challenges, but there are some skills that pastors can develop to become better leaders. In this conversation, we're gonna unpack ten of them. Let's do this. You're listening to the reach, right? Podcast, the show dedicated to helping your church reach more people and grow well, hey, guys, I'm Thomas. [00:00:24] Speaker B: And I'm Ian. [00:00:25] Speaker A: And today we are talking about ten pastoral leadership skills that are important for navigating modern church challenges. I think it should be a good conversation, emphasis on the modern church challenges. The things that we face in churches are different today. And I'm an executive pastor at my church, so I am the leader of our staff. And so these are things that we're constantly talking about in equipping our church leaders, our pastors, our staff on how to navigate these kinds of conversations with their teams and volunteers. And my goodness, I think I've, of the ten that we came up with in this conversation, I think we've had conversations about all of them in the last month. I feel like on our team, so should be a conversation, a good conversation for you and I to have here today. Ian? Yeah, yeah. Looking forward to digging any thoughts. [00:01:14] Speaker B: And I think it's, yeah, it's a unique one. You know, this we were talking about before starting this, just how this is been a little outside of our wheelhouse. But you and I both, you're an active pastor. I've pastored, obviously active in ministry. And so any ministry leader or pastor is going to, you're going to come across challenges in this day and age especially. And yeah, there's some challenges that are still happening today that were still a challenge in ministry 30 years ago, but times have changed. You made a good point there with that, Thomas. So, yeah, maybe these will be encouraging and maybe, yeah, maybe some pastors out there, they'll kind of realize, oh, man, I do need to brush up on that skill. So that's what we hope for at least. [00:01:57] Speaker A: So I hope most pastors feel pretty, pretty good about the first one. And that is effective communication because that's almost like a biblical standard for pastors as you have to be able to teach. And that's kind of in that communication zone. It's so much more than that. Just like I think most pastors, they get into it like most of us, like preaching to some degree at least. Or maybe it's the feeling we have after preaching or doing those things and we have, if you've been a pastor for any length of time, you've probably developed some skill there because you're forced to do it every weekend, even if you're not great at it. But I think that communication is something that's bigger than just the way we talk about things on Sunday morning. It's the way that we talk about everything in our lives. I think written communication is more important than it's ever been now, whether it be email or text messaging. But just getting better in this area, it can lead to avoiding a lot of conflict. I feel like if you just become good at clear communication, if I'm to give one tip, I think it's to incorporate follow up communication after every meeting that you have. So that's one practice that we're in at my church, is that after every meeting that takes place, whether it's with one of my staff members or a leader within our church, it's always just, usually it's kind of couched as a thank you, you know, hey, it was so good to meet with you. Thanks so much for spending your time with me. And then just kind of recapping exactly what we said we were going to do. And that is able to overcome so many challenges of like, oh, yeah, we said we were going to do that and we forgot or those things, just having it clearly written down, that's something that's been a huge win for us at our church. I know. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah. No, that's good. And one other thing I'll add to that is I think a lot of pastors are good at communicating from the pulpit and preaching, but also those one on one conversations. Maybe it's counseling someone. That's something that I think, too, that it's that interpersonal communication is different. So that's something I think that is very important because people open up to pastors more and may want to have some of those one on one conversations. And that kind of goes to this next point here, which is active listening. And I like the key word there, active. We emphasize, because, you know, there is passive listening. And is that really even listening or just someone just sitting there nodding your head? Yeah. If you are a leader of a church, you're a pastor, ministry leader, you need to be actively listening. And the word says to be slow to speak and quick to listen. Right. So obviously that shows you genuinely care about people. Again, people open up to pastors. They'll sometimes divulge things, personal things, you know, be extra transparent, just to get pastoral counseling and guidance. And again, not just in one on one conversations. I think in staff meetings, you know, are you the pastor that's just there to just run the show, or are you actively listening to what input and feedback that every leader has there? And again, people, it shows genuineness and that you actually really care about leading your people and loving them when you're actively listening to them. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah. One of our core values here is tenacious curiosity. Ed Reachwright, as you know, and my nickname is what, Ian? What do you call me? [00:05:23] Speaker B: Mister questions. [00:05:24] Speaker A: Mister questions. [00:05:25] Speaker B: If you are a superhero, that would be who you are. [00:05:28] Speaker A: And you're saying a big question mark on my cape, right? Yeah, but I think that's one of the best ways to do active listening. It actually shows that you're listening if you are asking follow up questions. You may disagree with that, Ian. I know. [00:05:40] Speaker B: I don't know. I ask a lot of questions, just not as many. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm a thoughtful, I'm a questioning person, tenacious. I think that's what made, that's what's in our core values here. Indeed. That's a great way to be active in your listening, though, is it? People understand that you're listening to them if you're asking follow up questions about what they mean by these things. And so that's the, the best way I know how to do it. Next one, not my strength, I will cleanly admit, is empathy. That's something my wife constantly tells me, not constantly, but occasionally tells me that I lack. I'm kind of a black and white person, and I know this has been a challenge for me in ministry, is getting better at showing empathy by empathy. It's different from sympathy in that it's actually placing yourself into the shoes of someone else and imagining what it would be like and actually being able to empathize with them. So, yeah, people, I think it's a great way to overcome challenges if you're able to actually do that with them. And people feel like they have a companion in their trials when there's someone that's being empathetic with them. So, yeah, really important to work on that skill as a pastor. [00:06:47] Speaker B: And I think that makes you relatable, too, you know, I mean, if you can, if you can, if you've been where someone else has been and even if you haven't, you know, I had this talk when we used to pastor together, too, just that we would talk, like, to counsel or to witness to someone who's had a miscarriage or something in their marriage. You don't have to have had that same experience to be able to minister to someone who's had that, but you definitely want to try to put yourself in someone's shoes and, you know, try to express that you feel their pain and what they're feeling. And I think it just makes pastors more relatable, even if they haven't gone down the same road as someone that they're, they're pastoring or something like that. But, yeah, so it's, that's a key one, Thomas, so I'm glad you mentioned what you did. And, yeah, I think we all need to work at that, for sure. So, next one is a fun one, conflict resolution. So, yeah, so, you know, we used to know and work with a pastor at another church marketing company that, before we started reach. Right. Who was very good at this. And I think one of the reasons why he actually was very good at this is that he did listen. So going back to active listening, he would listen to if it was an upset client or someone like that, or even someone on the team that had issues with very good athlete listening. And I think when there is a conflict, it's so easy. And I think a lot of pastors are strong personality types. Right. And it's easy to, it's easy to just want to get your point across. But I think when you listen to someone, when there's a conflict specifically and allow them to express their frustration or whatever the challenge is and then just, or hearing it, maybe it's in a staff meeting, maybe, maybe there's a several conflicts. It's, you know, allowing everyone to get those out into the open and try to come up with a unified, you know, just, you know, resolution for that conflict. So. But I think it starts with listening. [00:08:55] Speaker A: You know, I really think that if you have no conflict in your, in your staff meetings or leadership gatherings, if there's not, I don't mean like, tension, but like, if there's not some kind of disagreement or people having different opinions and some kind of conflict there, you're probably not doing it right. So it's important that you kind of learn to live in that environment where you are able to be okay with a little bit of conflict. You don't want to let the sun go down on your anger, as we know from scripture, but at the same time, bringing it to a place where you're open to those kinds of things and able to bring it to a resolution as best as you can, that would be something that everybody would feel good about. There will be times in ministry where there's just a clear disagreement. We see this in scripture with, with Paul having disagreement with John Mark, that we see that they just had to go their separate ways. Hopefully that doesn't happen. You want to be able to resolve these kinds of things, but, yeah, I think that conflict's going to happen, and mastering that is a super important pastoral leadership skill. So, for sure. Next one. Adaptability. This is something that's so important as conflict arises and as people have different opinions and certainly as you just go about a normal Sunday, you're gonna have to be adaptable. So I think pastors that are able to master this, not get so caught up in making sure it goes exactly by the book. That's something that really is an important skill to get better at. That's not to say don't plan. At our church, we have a grid that we go by every single week, but we're a spirit filled church. And sometimes worship goes a little longer, sometimes it's shorter, and we're willing to be adaptable in those kinds of situations. I think that is a strength and not a weakness. So adaptability is important. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah, being flexible on it. And I think one thing that helps you be adaptable is this next one, and that's being culturally aware. Cultural awareness is important. Obviously, we are in a probably the most challenging anti church culture that we've ever been in. And as time goes on, it seems like that increases. But it is important to be in touch and in tune with the culture. That doesn't mean compromising, obviously, the word and what scripture teaches in our faith, but it obviously being aware of cultural issues, you know, people's cultures, different people's cultures, obviously it's very important. I'm seeing, one thing I love seeing is, and this is a little off subject, but a lot more multicultural churches these days. And. But I think that the reason why a lot of churches that every church would say they want to be that, but I think that that starts with being aware of the culture in society and key issues that are going on. And it shows you're relevant. I think this shows you're relevant as a pastor and to your staff. Getting back to like, staff conflict resolution and all the other things we've been talking about when you're culturally aware. And I'll say this, too, I think my pastor is good at this. He's getting older, you know, he's about to be 60, but does a very good job of staying in touch with the culture and relates well to the younger staff at our church. And so, yeah, it's really important for pastors to be culturally aware of what's going on. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, well said. I want to bring it beyond just like, so as you think of cultural awareness, you just think of, like, different ethnicities and races. It's bigger than that. It's, you know, just being aware of what the culture is like and what your words may sound like. And this is, we're filming this, I don't know, three months before election day 2024. So there's lots of things that are part of the culture. A few weeks ago, former President Donald Trump was shot in the ear. And part of cultural awareness is, you know, maybe pausing on a Sunday and saying, hey, let's, let's pray for the situation in the United States here, the political climate. And that's just part of cultural awareness. You know, knowing that these are things that people are walking in with these kinds of issues on their mind. Some of them are heartbroken, some of them are confused. And, you know, you need to be aware of these kinds of situations that are happening. That's part of cultural awareness. So that's good. Next one, obviously very important is delegation. Getting really good at this. I finished a book that I would recommend called who not how. That I just finished that helped me really kind of think through that question. I am naturally a how thinker and delegation is. It has been challenging for me at times, and I've only gone as far as a leader as I've grown in my ability to truly delegate. And by delegate, I don't mean have someone else do it and then really me doing it through them, but actually giving them authority to do it as they see fit. And it's such an important skill as a pastor is learning how to not have control over every area of your ministry and really allowing the Holy Spirit to work through people that God's brought into your church and delegate not just the task, but the actual control of these areas to other people. Now, you do all of this in the confines of your mission and vision and people. You have to really have solidified those kinds of things so that there's not too much mission creep. But once you have those things dialed in, delegating is something that is the, it is really a linchpin of church growth, I would say is giving things away. [00:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And one thing I'll add to that is it allows people to, when you said allowing the Holy Spirit to work, it made me think of allowing other people in your church, leaders, volunteers, whoever, to use their gifts. Everyone has different gifts and abilities. And when you delegate things out, someone may have a, you know, I've seen a lot of pastors try to be the one man gang, you know, and so when they delegate, it allows other people to use their gifts, and not every pastor has all of the gifts needed to lead, and they most certainly don't. Yeah, so. Absolutely. And that's a good segue to this next one is time management. We're in a day and age where things are faster, a lot busier, just a lot more hectic, a lot more things going on. So it is very important for pastors to manage their time well. Talking about the pastor, that's the one man gang. I work with pastors every day. I work with so many pastors every week, and it breaks my heart for some of them. I could just tell they're strung out, that they're all over the place, they're not organized with their time, and they're not, you know, setting aside that Sabbath rest, we talk. You talk about that a lot, Thomas, the importance of the Sabbath. And that's just one aspect of it. It's a big part of it, but I think that's, you know, segmenting your time, not trying to do everything. And it just. It obviously makes a pastor more effective in leadership, too, if they're. If they're managing their time well and carrying that out. [00:16:06] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's good stuff. Yeah, I think that's. I think time management is something that all of us struggle with. It's not something you really are taught very well in school, and so I think it's something that you need to learn. And, yeah, I think the more I grow in that area, the better pastor I have become. Just really nailing these things, because there will never be enough time to do everything you're called to do. So you have to really get tight in these kinds of things. Work on a calendar, live on your calendar, and run your life that way, I think, is a good way to do it. So, next one, I don't know why we saved these two that we're gonna do at the end for last, but number nine, the 9th most important is integrity. I don't think that's true. I think that this should be a defining attribute of everyone who is a good leader. And the thing about integrity is that a lot of times, people can fake it. And that's when we see, you know, these. It really destroys churches when it's missed. You know, a pastor that doesn't have good time management, a pastor that's not great at adaptability, you know, that's stuff you can overcome. And integrity is different in that. A lot of times, you don't really see the issue but when it does rear its head, it can destroy everything. And so obviously so important if you are hiring a pastor. We did a video not too long ago. I'll put a link up to it here about interview questions you want to ask in a pastoral interview. This is the first and foremost. So many churches have made that mistake of hiring and choosing leaders based on gifting. But if the integrity isn't there to match it, you're setting yourself up for disaster with those kinds of things. I think everybody kind of knows this innately, but I just want to give us a reinforcement that that is never something that you can compromise on because it will always rear its head. So. [00:18:04] Speaker B: That's true. Yeah. Unfortunately, we're seeing this issue throughout the body of Christ these days way too often. Way too often. Yeah, it seems like more often these days than in the past, but I know it's been a problem for ages. But yeah, we don't like seeing that. So definitely integrity last also, not least, not like you said. Why are these at the end? Biblical knowledge. Okay, if you don't know the Bible, you know, that's, as a pastor and a ministry leader, that's a problem. So. And I think, you know, here's the thing. Being in the word constantly as a pastor is vital, of course. And, you know, having that time, not just sermon prep. And I think this is maybe wherever a pastor can fall into this trap. If you're only in the word, when you're sermon prepping and getting ready for next Sunday's sermon or you're in your series or whatever, you can miss that biblical knowledge that is so needed and that foundation that's needed. Said this at the beginning of this podcast, but you will have those conversations as a pastor, those one on one conversations where people are asking you deep theological, you know, questions and different, you know, struggles that they have, that they need a biblical answer to. And if you are a pastor and you don't have strong biblical knowledge, yeah, I'm concerned about you. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Well, it's something you can grow in. Like, I think, you know, I have more biblical knowledge than I did when I, when I started in ministry, and it's something we should always be growing in, obviously. But yeah, I just think that there's no replacement for that. I can tell when I've missed my devotional time or haven't been in the word that maybe I'm not spending as much time as I should, that my sharpness on hearing from the Lord or maybe even responding the way he would want me to. It starts to dull. So, yeah, I just think there's no replacement for that. It's something that obviously should be part of your criteria in finding pastors, and it's a leadership skill that every pastor needs to have. So, anything else to add as we wrap up, Ian? [00:20:15] Speaker B: No. Hopefully one or more of these were definitely encouraging. And we just, we want, we're leaders here at reach, right. Leaders at our church, prospective churches. And we love to help in the area of leadership if we can. So not just, if it's been helpful. [00:20:34] Speaker A: To you, it'd mean a lot to me if you would hit that subscribe button. Thanks so much, guys, for being a part of the reach ride family, and we'll see you next time. [00:20:41] Speaker B: See you.