Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Interviewing a new pastor is one of the most consequential things you will do in the life of your church. So getting your pastor interview questions right, is paramount. In today's episode, we're gonna talk about five mistakes. Most churches make. When they interview pastors, we hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow. This is the reach right podcast. You're listening to the reach, right podcast, the show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always as my co-host Ian Hyatt, we're here to help your church see more visitors and grow, but Hey guys, welcome to the reach ride podcast, episode number 116. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my co-host
Speaker 3 00:01:06 Ian Hyatt. What's up Thomas.
Speaker 0 00:01:08 Hey, now much man. Good conversation today. I think a vital one for churches. Yeah. Um, we are gonna be talking about, uh, five pastor interview question mistakes or interview mistakes that we see a lot of churches making. Uh, there's a lot of mistakes out there and make these mistakes and it can cost you dearly. Um, I can't yeah, just tell everybody knows what a big deal it is when you're trying to hire a new pastor, whether this be a new lead pastor for your church, a youth pastor, or a worship pastor, really these can, uh, work for any, any pastoral role in a church. Yeah. And whether you are a lead pastor or you're on a church staff, or you're on a church council or church board, we hope this conversation will be helpful to you today to try and yeah. Weed out some of those question mistakes, uh, that we see cuz it is a, it is a big deal, right? Ian.
Speaker 3 00:01:56 Oh, absolutely. And we think this will be very helpful. I think, you know, in, in church life, we, a lot of churches we've seen for years. They, they have a way they, they go about doing things, not just with their pastoral interview process, but just in ministry. And sometimes you just kind of have these sacred cows or just these systems and things that you just, you kind of been doing for years. Right. Maybe, and, and hopefully you're a church doesn't have to find a new senior pastor like every two years or something. Yeah. But you know, at the same time, uh, maybe it's time to look at kind of what you've been doing for years or what you have and, and make some changes. So that's, that's hopefully what we kind of bring to the table to help.
Speaker 0 00:02:35 Yeah, no, I, it might be time to reevaluate some of those things. I, I think it's such an important conversation because there is no decision that you make in your church that will affect its future more than the leaders within that church and who we choose for those people. And, uh, I have been a part of churches where we did this wrong. Uh, and we have worked with many, many churches that get this wrong. Uh, and it can be devastating the results. I mean, if you, uh, I've um, I've been a lead pastor of churches over the last 15 years or so. Um, not currently, but I have been. And so, um, you know, I have been on the getting hired and more that hired a lead pastor, but I have hired many, uh, other pastors on our team. And when we have gotten it wrong, I mean, just, I, I remember choosing a wrong worship leader at one point.
Speaker 0 00:03:23 Uh, and just the, uh, the devastation, uh, that, that brought to our church because this is someone who's in front of the church every week. People love their worship leader and they choose their church based on the music so many times. And, you know, to, to have a false start there, uh, it can really throw a wrench in things. So I, I hope these conversations and this conversation specifically today will help us to weed out some of those mistakes we see in pastor interview, uh, interview processes and some of those questions. Now we do have a video, I think coming out later this week, uh, that's going to go through the 10 best pastor interview questions that we think you should ask in every pastoral interview. Uh, so we'll try to link that into the description. It might not be there right when this video goes live, cuz it's not quite ready yet, but it will be up here in the corner.
Speaker 0 00:04:13 We'll put a card in there so you can, uh, get a direct link over to that. So, um, yeah. So let's kick off here. I guess we'll talk about some of those things that those mistakes we see, uh, here's the first one is we see mistakes where you in the interview process, you're only focused on the pastor's highlight reel mm-hmm <affirmative>, you're talking about what they did at their absolute best moments, right? It's basically like you've heard this set about, um, Instagram, right? Like, so Instagram is everybody's highlight real. It is the absolute best moments of their life. It's when they look the best, it's when they sound the best. It's when their family is, is looking fun. They're on vacation, they're eating great food, whatever it is, it's really their highlight real. And I think a lot of pastor interview processes, they resemble at Instagram reel where someone might send over the best sermon that they ever preached and they'll on their resume.
Speaker 0 00:05:04 They highlight the, the biggest successes in their previous ministry opportunities. And if you only focus and think that that is the standard, this is what they typically have done. This is what they always produce. I think you're getting probably a pretty bad, uh, idea of who this person that you're interviewing really is. Uh, because let's be honest. Like we all know if you've preached any number of messages, some are good and some are bad and bad. That's good. <laugh>, I've preached as someone who's preached many bad messages before. There's a lot of those weekends where you come home and you ask your wife how it was and she, you know, she's kind of like, she's not gonna tell you it was bad because she loves you and she doesn't wanna hurt you too much. So she kind of like, well, my wife might tell me, but that's okay.
Speaker 0 00:05:48 Yeah. She, I, I know your wife, she might do that. You, right. So she, she's the first to tell you when things are bad. But anyway, I think that it's just really important that you get in a little bit deeper. Um, if someone submits, uh, a, a sermon for you to listen to, well, find some other sermons, find the sermons that were around that sermon. What did the next week sound like? How was that one? How was that different? Why did they choose to send this particular one to you? Yep. Some of those kinds of questions I think are good to ask. What do you have to add to that?
Speaker 3 00:06:13 Yeah. And this could not just be, I know preaching's a big thing and, and, and not that you said that was the only thing, but, uh, but I think this could be some other pastoral, um, you know, failures. I think we always, like you said, we naturally always think of our best moments, right. What we do best and everything. And sometimes you gotta, well, I don't think you have to, actually, I was gonna say sometimes you have to dig a little deeper for failures. I think we all know our failures too. Yeah. Uh, they just don't wanna, we don't want those to be on the tip of the tongue, uh, you know, in an interview or, or in any, uh, conversation. But no, I think that too, when it, a pastor kind of can talk about some failures that shows humility and honesty too, and that's a definitely a quality that you're gonna want, um, outta your pastor. So I think it also brings out maybe how they overcame that. And I know we're gonna kind of address some of this as we go on, but, uh, that those are some good things with, uh, identifying, not just the highlight reel.
Speaker 0 00:07:03 Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Let hit the next one.
Speaker 3 00:07:06 Yeah. Yeah. Next one is, uh, you wanna have, you don't want to have interview questions that are not tailored to your specific church. Um, so that's a big deal because every church is different. Uh, and every church culture is different. Um, I think sometimes we can get generic and kind of just be thinking too big picture and thinking church in general and not just our own church. Um, you know, your church pastor, who's listened to this, you know, that your church is unique compared to other churches. There might be some similarities that you have, uh, if you, you know, in your UMC church that other UMC churches do or whatever, for example, but yeah, you know that the town you're located in, uh, the demographics there are different than they will be in another city. Your people are different, your church, culture, vibe, whatever you wanna say, your values are different. So I think you need to specifically focus on questions that are, uh, that you're gonna ask your potential pastor, you know, or pastoral candidate. Um, they need to be based on your church, you know, and, and that'll help you identify if this person is actually a good fit for your culture and team and, and so on.
Speaker 0 00:08:20 That's good. I, I think that E every church, what we do when we need to make a hiring decision, uh, every church leader, we all get onto Google and we put into something to the effect of pastor interview questions. We've, we've at reach right. Made content around this because we know this is something that people are searching for all the time. They, yeah. They need to be finding, Hey, what am I gonna ask? These people that we're interviewing this person? What are some good questions to ask? One of the mistakes you can make is just downloading a bunch of questions. And then just reading 'em verbatim off that and not, oh
Speaker 3 00:08:51 Gosh,
Speaker 0 00:08:51 Contextualizing them for your church and your specific situation, because mm-hmm, <affirmative> what works, uh, in New York city is not what works in St. Louis, right? And it's certainly not what works in Odessa, Texas. And so it's something that's different, no matter where you are, that here I am in Hawaii, if I just took one of those lists and didn't ask some cultural questions that kind of match what life is like here in Hawaii, what people are like here in Hawaii, it would be something that is totally, uh, foreign and probably not giving us the best answers on these things. So one of the big mistakes, I, I'm not saying don't do this, please go do fine. We have a, a post that had, well, I told you about the video. We did. We also have a post on our blog with the 30 interview questions that we want to get. You kind of be as a, a starting point. We want you to be thinking about these kinds of questions, but do not just ask them verbatim, contextualize them, try to figure out what is practical for our church. And how can we ask this in a way that really matters to us and dig in a little bit deeper. So, are, are there some examples we can share about that, Ian? I, I think we had a few ideas on, on that, on how some questions to ask about that.
Speaker 3 00:09:56 Yeah. Yeah. So a couple of them would be, why do people end up being a poor fit for our church culture? Why do people quit here or get, let go here made me think a little bit that question there, about what you, the example you gave about when you hired the wrong worship, pastor you, you know, if you have one of those, you can, you can kind of have that built in experience of, okay, we know why this person quit or let go, you know? And so that's a specific one. Um, you know, look at your team members, ask what traits and attitudes are, do your successful team members and leaders have, um, what's unique about your congregation and your team. Yeah. Those, those are some quick handful.
Speaker 0 00:10:37 Yeah, no, that's good. Perfect stuff. So I'll go ahead and get the next one then. Uh, yeah, so you need to avoid, uh, a big mistake. I see churches make is you need to avoid interrogations of the perspective pastoral candidate that don't allow for honest conversation. Uh, so that's really the goal of this is yeah. At some people interview really well. And they're just really good at putting on this and turning on and being what they want, what people want them to be. And they're just really good at that. Yeah. Yeah. Other people, uh, are not as good at that, but what you're really looking for and your job as an interviewer is to try to find out who this person is when they're not on at a hundred percent, what are they really like? Because that's where you're really gonna find the fit. If you hire someone that can turn it on for 60 minutes at a time, but they're not really a good fit when they're not on, well, you've probably made a mistake with that. So what you're gonna try to do is not get into these long interrogations about, uh, you know, that, that don't let them be honest that make them answer questions in a very specific right. Answer kind of way. Yeah. You know, we all know some of those kinds of interview questions. Like if you're in an interview and you say, Hey, what are your weaknesses? And the person knows, they're supposed to say, well, I work too hard and I, I care too much. And that kind of stuff
Speaker 3 00:11:51 Right. Much. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:11:52 Yeah. Those kinds of things.
Speaker 3 00:11:53 So I put others at before me too much. And then so sometimes I make mistakes.
Speaker 0 00:11:57 I'm too, too self deferential. Yeah. That's exactly right. So I think that that's something that we, that really, you need to move beyond those kinds of questions. So you can get to real honest feedback and really try to figure out who the person is. I, I actually would encourage churches to try to spend time outside of an interview setting with the person when we hired my replacement pastor at the church that I left most recently, well, we had an interview and we sat down and we did those kinds of things. And they, they interviewed with our church council, but there was also hours of watching basketball games together and sharing meals with people and getting to know them and barbecues and that kind of stuff. And it, it's, it's one thing to be on your best behavior for an hour. Yeah. It's a totally another thing to do it for 48 hours of time spent together. So yeah, don't be afraid to really let that interview process like go on a little bit, this important, this decision is really important. Yeah. So don't feel like, Hey, we have to get a pastor this week. We need to make this happen. Feel free to take your time, have several different events that are part of it because it's really all part of getting to know somebody.
Speaker 3 00:13:05 Yeah. No, that's really good. That's good. So, uh, one little thing I'll add to that again, when someone's interrogated too, and they're put on the defensive, they're gonna kind of automatically default to maybe like just some positive answer. That's not in depth. So anyway, good. Yeah. I'll tackle the next one. It's that's having poor pastor interview questions that don't balance spiritual and practical made me think right away of that saying being too heavenly minded and no earthly. Good. Um, so you gotta make sure now a pastor spirituality, their closeness, their understanding of their relationship with the Lord is obviously vital, but you gotta get into the practical part too, because you know, other than just a great powerful message, that's, uh, super heavily minded. They gotta be practical also in their preaching and, uh, real life experiences and carrying out, um, you know, even behind the scenes, uh, pastoral work, uh, not just about the preaching, they gotta be practical and be able to be relevant to your team. Others they're ministering to mm-hmm <affirmative>, uh, and have a good balance, uh, you know, between the spiritual and the practical. I think that church often could just focus more on the spiritual nav. Someone that, you know, can come off as very spiritual and now that's it, that's what we need right there. Uh, our church needs to, we need our people to get closer to the Lord. Yes you do. But you also need good practical leadership as well.
Speaker 0 00:14:27 Oh my goodness. This is so true. And I, I I've actually seen both. Right. So I've seen yeah. People that are very practical, uh, and they, you know, maybe have a, a great resume that is very business oriented. And sometimes there's places in churches for people like that, but there, um, that sometimes neglect the spiritual, but I think you're right. I think it's more common that we would see a church focus too much on theological questions. And yeah, not to say those aren't important, please ask that, make sure that they're a theological fit for your church and who you are. Yeah. And where your church is going. But you're absolutely right. If you forget to, to talk about, Hey, tell me about the, what you've done practically in this area. Tell us, talk about times where you have seen growth in these things. Tell me about your thoughts on, uh, punctuality and how that matters and those kinds of things like all that really hyper practical stuff.
Speaker 0 00:15:17 Uh, it probably, I would spend more of my interview time asking those questions. Yeah. The theological stuff and the spiritual stuff. A lot of that you can get just online and it doesn't have to be in an interview. So you could ask the pastor to say, Hey, talk to us a little bit about what you believe about, um, are you a Calvinist or are you an Armenian or are, do you believe any question baptism and where that should take place and those kinds of questions, women in ministry, ask those things online before the interview, they can tell you a little bit about what they think about those things. It's probably a good exercise and a good chance for you to test some of their writing skill. I think in those as well. Yeah. So yeah.
Speaker 3 00:15:52 Couple of other questions too, with that, you know, don't, don't be afraid to avoid some tough and controversial questions there too. I mean, you, yeah. You mentioned men, women in ministry. That would be one, but there could be some other controversial, you know, not just theologically thing, but just cultural things. Uh, not that you want to get too political, but you know, also their personal life digging into their health, their wellbeing. I mean, if you have someone that's just talking all about the ministry and you don't really kind of know what they're doing with their, uh, their Mar how they're doing in their marriage and as a father and what they're doing socially, those things are important. So a couple of other questions too. Yeah. And ideas are. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:29 All right. Well, last one last mistake that we see is focusing too much on past and past performance and not so much on present and future and where the church is going. And this is really common in an interview process because you're trying to figure out what is this person's track record say, what have they done that sh that makes me think that they're gonna be a success in this opportunity at our church going forward, based on what they did in the past and totally with good reason, ask those kinds of questions. Right. But I really want to hear what their vision is for where our church is going. Listen, any pastor that is coming into an interview, if they haven't spent hours pouring over your current church website, your social media, your sermons, those things that you have out there right now, if they don't know your church, and this is assuming they're coming from the outside.
Speaker 0 00:17:21 Yeah. A lot of pastor interviews are people that have already been in the church and they should have some good answers to these questions, but no matter who they are asking them questions around where they see the church going, what direction they're gonna be going in. Uh, what, um, what are some big changes that they would like to see happen? You don't wanna make them commit to this because sometimes change is something that is really hard to navigate in a church. Obviously any new pastor probably knows that you want to be slow with your rate of change in most cases. Right. But asking them, you know, what are some things that you could see changing in yeah. Five, 10 years? Where is this church gonna be in five or 10 years? Yeah. With you at the helm or you leading our youth ministry. Some of those questions that get them to focus on the future are really important.
Speaker 3 00:18:05 Yeah. And you know, let's face it we're in crazy times. We can't no PA no pastor ministry leader can predict totally where things are gonna go with your church or in society and culture, but you gotta have some sort of a vision for that. You gotta be able to look ahead a bit. And, uh, I think that shows that you got a strong visionary as a pastor, too. Um, let's face it. We've seen this for years consulting with churches, Thomas, you and I, that, you know, a lot of times it's hard for churches to get out of the past and look at what's relevant now, uh, to reach culture. And what's gonna be, and to have a vision for five plus years. Yeah. I never
Speaker 0 00:18:41 Heard of a church that dealt with that stuff. Like they're stuck in the past. You're saying that's weird.
Speaker 3 00:18:45 I've never, it's very rare. Isn't it? <laugh> uh, no, unfortunately all too common. And, and at the same time, we know churches are working hard at that. Some more than others, but, uh, but yeah.
Speaker 0 00:18:56 Yeah. That's so true. So here's a couple of ideas of examples of things that will help you ask more questions about where the church is going or where they see things going. So, uh, what do you think is the most important goal for our church right now? Uh, what do you think our church's biggest challenges or obstacles are some of those kinds of questions, and then even get specifically with it, if your church has some goals that have been set out there, maybe it's a growth goal or you're in a building project or something like that, whatever it would be, what are you going to do? Or what would be your recommendation for us as a church to help to get to this goal, whatever that might be there. Yeah. So I think that's all really good stuff there, but that is good. Do you have any other, I guess kind of advice as we close up, I, any other, I think there's a few more questions we came up with, or maybe some process. We have points people to think about. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:43 Question. Yeah. We've, we've thrown a few out there today. We don't wanna overwhelm everyone, but, you know, and again, there's gonna be some content we give you later, that will be good for you to have, but, uh, yeah, sum it all up. Ask hypothetical questions that, that, you know, they haven't scripted out ahead of time that, you know, that kind of be a little unpredictable, uh, that may under, uh, you know, kind of reveal their attitudes, values, all of that. Um, you know, create specific questions that focus on specific attributes for your church culture. Um, make the interview process a conversation and use, you know, practical, real life, examples and environments. And I, I wanna pause there for that. I think that make it conversational again, we didn't, as we mentioned earlier, you don't wanna interrogate people. I think where you really we've seen this for years, when we've you and I both have hired people, uh, for what we do in the church industry and helping churches grow and digital marketing we've, we've hired numerous people. And, and the ones that I think, uh, are most successful are ones that are very conversational and authentic. So I like that one. Uh, and then, like we said, it assess both spiritual, practical attributes that the candidate has. Um, and then don't focus too much on the past. Again, like we just said, focus on the future.
Speaker 0 00:20:57 That's it? Good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, leave it at that for this week. I appreciate everybody. Uh, who's part of our reach, right? Family. Thank you for being a part of our, uh, what we do here each week. And, uh, for tuning in watching, listening, wherever you do that, uh, if this has been helpful to you or your church, it would mean so much to you, to us. If you would rate, review subscribe. One of the things that really helps a lot is if you just comment. So I want you to comment. If you have two different, uh, things, number one, if you have a pastor interview question that your church always asks or you've seen really be helpful, that would be great. Or if you were in a pastor interview, you were interviewed, most of us have been interviewed for a pastoral position at some point that if you're listening to this podcast, what was the toughest question that you were asked? That's one that I'd love to hear your answer to. So let us know when the comments down below, thank you guys for being a part of our reach, right family, and we hope to catch you next week.
Speaker 3 00:21:47 See ya.
Speaker 0 00:21:51 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, right studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 00:22:26 You.
