Speaker 0 00:00:00 Almost every church offers online giving. Now, in fact, it is now the primary way that people give to churches, but doing online giving right is more than just putting a link at the bottom of your website. We see churches making some of the same mistakes when it comes to online giving. And in today's episode, we're going to unpack six of them. We hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow. This is the reach right podcast. You're listening to the read-write podcast. The show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help your church see more visitors and grow
Speaker 0 00:01:02 Hey guys, welcome to the right podcast. Episode number 63, I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt.
Speaker 3 00:01:12 What's up Thomas.
Speaker 0 00:01:13 Hey, not much man. Excited for our conversation here today. We're gonna be talking about six online giving mistakes that your church is making and how you can avoid them. Uh, so I think it's a important one. Um, we, we saw a huge shift and a groundswell of people moving to online, giving over this pandemic season. Yeah, it was, I'd say the vast majority of churches were already doing it before the pandemic. Uh, but what happened, I think for most churches is that most of their members started to move to online giving when the pandemic started there. Uh, so how about you? How were you guys like personally, did you guys give to your church online pre pandemic or were you guys still writing check people or what did you do?
Speaker 3 00:01:58 No, no. We, the only check writing we have done in the last several years was to, um, a guy that cut our lawn because he didn't do Venmo or anything else or whatever, but we've been tithing and giving on online, man. I mean over eight years, over eight years already nine years, probably. So yeah, we were already doing it.
Speaker 0 00:02:19 That's right. Yeah. We, we are the same thing. So pre pandemic, that's something that I did. I know that I pastored a church at Madison, Wisconsin up until 2019. And I say at our church, I found that we were an anomaly about 75% of our income that came in from online sources. Uh, so people giving online, uh, what we found prepaid. We don't have any recent research on this, but pre pandemic. It was about 30 to 35% is how much churches received online, which surprised me. I maybe that's just a generational thing. And some of the biggest givers are maybe baby boomers and you and I are young gen X-ers that age. So well, I'm younger on the gen X side. You're a little older gen X or I guess I am so by, by 15 months or so. So anyway,
Speaker 3 00:03:03 It makes a huge difference that 15
Speaker 0 00:03:05 Is totally different. We just grew up completely different worlds that you and I grew up in. So, uh, but anyway, I think that we saw this groundswell of people interested in online, giving learning about online giving members started giving online as the lion's share of their income because there was no other option in the pandemic. But with that, we saw a lot of the same old mistakes that we've been seeing for years about when it comes to online giving. And, uh, I'd be lying if I didn't say that they're the, they're really the same ones over and over it because it's not like there's a one-off thing. It's something that we see all the time. And so we, we kind of preach a about this and some of the ways to do online, giving the right way. And so we're going to try and tackle some of those today. Uh, so it shouldn't be a good conversation, I think
Speaker 3 00:03:52 Yeah. Much needed one and very, hopefully we believe it will be very helpful to pastors and ministry leaders, for sure.
Speaker 0 00:03:58 Yeah. Yeah. Kick us off.
Speaker 3 00:04:00 Yeah. Online giving mistake, number one, no inspiration. Um, so, you know, again, I, I see this, uh, you just said it, we've seen the same mistakes over and over again for years now. And even since online giving soared during the pandemic, but you know, often, you know, I go to a church's website and I click on give or donate or whatever they title that link. And it just goes right to where they give. So there's not even a page to inspire someone, give them a reason to give, you know, what is the inspiration? I mean, we, we know biblically that giving is, is not something that we to be looked at as something that we have to do, but something that we get to do. Right. Correct. And, uh, there's so many scriptures on, on the joy of giving the, the blessings, the givings, the blessing of giving. Uh, and so there's so much that a church can do inspirationally, uh, that they can communicate that will definitely help, um, the giver who's considering giving feel better about doing it.
Speaker 0 00:05:06 Sure. Yeah. No, I think you're exactly right. I think that, uh, having a, like skipping inspiration is one of the biggest mistakes that we can make because we already have this tension where we feel like, uh, people, uh, accused churches. I don't think most churches actually are this way. There's a few of them are, but the accusation that's leveled against us, uh, is that we only care about money. Right. That's the thing that the church has care about. And like, I've never been to that church. I imagine maybe they do exist, but they're like one out of a thousand where they're all about money
Speaker 3 00:05:38 And money that saying,
Speaker 0 00:05:40 Yeah, that's exactly right. But I think that if you just, if you just have a link straight off to your giving, I can see why someone might think that if you don't have any reason for giving, I think that you hit it exactly right again. But I, I think I'd even say just reminding ourselves that giving is not something it's something we get to do, but it's an act of worship. It's something that we're called to do in a way that we honor and show glory to the Lord. And I think that giving people a reminder of that and helping people understand why we give, uh, and the, the reason behind it and what it does for me as the giver and where does God call me to do it? Those are all such important parts of making the case, because here's what we see in churches, right? Every church has some kind of a liturgy around giving. They have some kind of a thing they do on Sunday mornings with a met, then they would, they would do something like around giving. You never hear someone get up there and say, okay, it's giving time. They're going to walk around with some bowls.
Speaker 0 00:06:39 Just put some stuff in there, I guess not how it goes, right? You, you don't
Speaker 3 00:06:43 Get it that way.
Speaker 0 00:06:43 That's equivalent to just linking off to an online giving provider and saying, Hey, good luck. It's just, Hey, here's some, no, we always take some time and say, you know, God loves a cheerful giver and they share, they talk and they inspire people before we ask them to give, you have to do that exact same thing on your website. If you don't, you're missing a really big opportunity.
Speaker 3 00:07:03 That's good. That's good stuff.
Speaker 0 00:07:05 Good. Number two, I'll hit that one. Uh, so like number one is no inspiration. Number two is no explanation not explaining what you're giving is going towards, how you can give, why it is safe. I think those are the kinds of things that you need to have on there. So, um, as far as explanation, I think some of the keys are explaining the different ways that people can give talking about how, uh, on your website, you talk about giving online, or maybe you have give by text, which I think is a good option. Uh, maybe people still want to send in checks and the website can be a resource for how people can do something like that. Because there is still a portion of the population that prefers to pay by check. We know this because we have a business, right? So we know that, well, I don't know, like 95% of our clients are on a credit card system and they do it that way.
Speaker 0 00:07:55 We still have a fraction of our clients that insist on paying annually for their fees and pay it in one big lump sum and sending us a check for that. And so we know that's still the case, but giving people some explanation on how they can do that, I think that's really important. And then also just explaining what does the giving go towards? Like w w um, I think this is something that people miss a lot is that they, they assume that the giving goes towards something that's just could be different from what reality is. Obviously it's keep the lights on and to pay salaries and to pay for all those things that happen in a church. But what is, what are we doing with these, this money? That's an important thing.
Speaker 3 00:08:36 Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, what I love to see on websites, and we, we do this a lot on the websites that we help churches with and that we build is that this explanation in written form, but also could be videos. It could show, I know my church, we came, we come up with videos around all around December, everyone, you know, how everyone kind of pushes for giving for tax write-offs and those things. But around that time, it's on people's minds. So it makes sense to do that then, and we do kind of a year in review, like, what did our church do for outreach? Did we, we show a video of flood victims being helped. We show, um, you know, we show families being fed. We do a big Thanksgiving meal giveaway for, you know, hundreds of families. Uh, and so we show that stuff and it may not be something that big, it might just be, Hey, if you guys did a community outreach or, um, you know, I know your church used to do laundry love, you'd take over laundry mats and wash people's clothes for free, tremendous way to bless people that could just use some fresh clothes and some help financially for even that little thing.
Speaker 3 00:09:45 And, you know, we had photos of that on your website, and we do this on other websites show that action and show, show, not just outreach, but people being blessed by it, you know, happy couples financially, well, couple is doing well. Uh, all of those things, there's a lot of imagery. And like you said, an explanation that can be given. So yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. It had it hard. It's good now. Good. Number three, uh, discouraging credit cards. You just kind of touched on it a little bit. We do still hear from, uh, several churches, not as many that, that, you know, want to do everything by check. And, and honestly, I hear this more than you being on the ground level and the front line, so to speak, working with churches and in consulting through good website strategies, we always touch upon giving.
Speaker 3 00:10:31 I touch upon online giving and virtually every conversation that I have. And, uh, and I hear I get this, I still get this question, even though online giving usage has soared. Like you said, since the pandemic, I still get this question. Hey, but gosh, you know, we don't, we don't really, you know, we're unsure of allowing people to use credit cards because, you know, we, we, you know, there's a transaction fee and we're missing out on all of the, the offering and while that's true, the fact of the matter is what we've seen for years is by allowing credit card usage for giving and donations, churches giving goes up and there's so much data, there's statistical data on this because here's the thing, everyone. Well, I shouldn't say everyone, I would say probably 90, some odd percent of people. That's what they use credit cards.
Speaker 3 00:11:20 That's what they use. They use their credit or debit card and funny just the other day, uh, my girl, as, you know, plays volleyball and, you know, we didn't have, we had to pay their by cash or check for a school t-shirt of all of volleyball t-shirt and we couldn't buy it at that time. We were like, we don't have cash. And we also don't want, you know, maybe had like two bucks leftover from something I didn't have all the cash and we didn't, we definitely don't carry our checkbook around. And my wife was even chuckling who carries a checkbook around. And then this other family bias was like, yeah, we don't have it either. So it's like, same thing, you know, people are used to it. So you're not going to miss out as, as much. And there's other reasons you can probably share too, why this isn't something to shy or a sweat.
Speaker 0 00:12:02 Yeah. What I, I see the most is that it's that transaction fee. So, you know, there's no way around it. If you're accepting credit cards, you're going to pay somewhere between a little over 2% and a little over 3%, you're going to pay that in transaction fees and some churches. And I've worked with leaders on this as they have a such a hard time with that. And so they'll start to have conversations. Like they'll say things in church that say, Hey, if you're going to give online, make sure to use, uh, a check because, uh, or make sure to use, uh, um, uh, your ACH transfer. Because when you do that, it saves us a lot on fees. And I, I get it, you know, I don't like paying fees. We pay thousands of dollars every month in credit card fees. I hate it. So it's not fun to do that, but even worse than that is having customers or in the case of a church, having them worried about, uh, you know, having indecision about giving or whether they should give or not, because they don't want to have fees or it makes it more complicated for them.
Speaker 0 00:13:01 Uh, I have read, like you were mentioning just that there are, there's lots of information out there that when you do that, when you give, when you give people a, um, a, uh, these kinds of options, it just adds to more confusion. And in the end, it leads to less in California. I know whenever I go there, I have family there, all of the gas stations, they have two different prices, right? So they have the, the cash price and there's the credit card price. And you it's like 20 cents a gallon difference if you're paying with cash versus paying with credit card. And I honestly, I hate that because it's like, as, as a user, I, I see it as, not as I can save money by giving cash, but I lose money for using what's most convenient for me. And I think for, for churches, again, it's not a matter of saving money versus spending money.
Speaker 0 00:13:51 I just think that in the end, you want to just take all of these thoughts out of people that are giving, uh, giving to your church. We don't want them, it's an act of worship. I don't want them being worried about how much there are fees and all those kinds of things. I just want them to give, you know, I think a lot of people understand that we can save some money if you do that. One of the things I'll say too, is there's some giving providers that have a button that says, I choose to cover the fees, or I want to cover it. I know that, uh, our favorite is a company called tiredly. Uh, they do great work. They have those kinds of options. Personally, if I had an option to turn that off, I'd rather not have that because I don't want people worried, clicking that and seeing all that's how much the fees are. Maybe it should just be giving in check and I'll do it next time. I'm at church. And then they're gone for a couple weeks. I just don't like the added thought that goes into it. I just want to make it easy and have people give what they feel led to give. And we'll go ahead and eat the fees. That's kind of my thought on it there.
Speaker 3 00:14:47 Yeah. I was going to mention one other thing. I'm glad you covered the option there. That can be convenient, but I agree with you just when, when there's more for someone to think through, especially when it comes to giving, cause let's just face it. I haven't always been a cheerful giver. Sometimes there's been some times in my life where I in it and I tie than all of that, but there's been times where it's is a little tougher at times to do that. So I'm not always cheerful as I should be, but if I'm obedient, but here's what I'm saying is if someone gets to that giving page and they're not so cheerful and they already have some apprehension, let's not give them more reason to be apprehensive. Right. So that's kind of a, another thing to say that
Speaker 0 00:15:24 That's exactly right. Yeah. And I'll say one last thing as we close up on this point here is that there is some concern, like for those that are Dave Ramsey type folks, I am a big Dave Ramsey guy I've led financial peace universities. Uh, I think it's really valuable stuff. And he obviously is a hundred percent opposed to credit cards in all circumstances, full stop, no exceptions, anything like that. Uh, so to be clear, when we're talking about credit cards, that also includes debit card. So if you're a attracted that does financial peace university and you feel like it's somehow hypocritical to accept that the idea is encourage your people to use a debit card on there. They don't have to use a visa card that they're going into debt to give to your church. Nobody really wants that. We don't want people giving outside of their means with those areas.
Speaker 0 00:16:11 So, uh, debit cards work the same way. So when we talk about giving with credit cards, debit cards are the same and they have the same kind of fees, unfortunately. So that's just the way that is. So let me hit number four. This will be the one that's probably most controversial today. Um, I think that churches, uh, I guess mistake number four is not accepting Bitcoin. All right. So this is a big one. We haven't talked a lot about on this channel, uh, before in any of our podcasts before, but, uh, I believe I'm a, I'm a Bitcoin fan. I'm someone that holds some, I know you hold some Bitcoin as well too. And our, our personal portfolios and I, I'm a believer in this, uh, I not a religious believer, but I just think it's a good technology. And it's something that is a good thing for every church probably to have in their portfolio to have, if you have a church savings or something of that, I think you'd be a mistake to not have some kind of position there, but especially when it comes to giving, I think it's important now in 2021 to have an option for people to be able to give with Bitcoin or maybe even some other cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 0 00:17:17 And here's the, here's why I'm not saying that every church needs to get, go down that rabbit hole and get really into Bitcoin and be doing all your transactions there. But if you are the there's about 25% of the American population now owns some Bitcoin, right? So a quarter of people do, uh, and a lot of those people that own some Bitcoin, they have made a lot of money in Bitcoin over the last, if they've been in it for a long time, over the last 12 years, they've made a fortune. Uh, but even over the last or three years, a lot of people have made a lot of money, uh, and selling Bitcoin. A lot of times doesn't make a lot of sense for people because if you were to sell Bitcoin, then you'd be on the hook for all kinds of taxes and things that go along with that.
Speaker 0 00:18:03 Uh, and in general, that's something people want to avoid and what they can do a lot of times, much like you may have, you have people at your church that gives stock, uh, or they give bonds or some other kind of security giving people the option to give Bitcoin. Uh, it actually would, would let them kind of get re be removed from some of the tax burdens that come with that. And they can actually give really extravagantly in some ways. I know a lot of people, I know a lot of people in kind of the Bitcoin community are waiting for this to start to be able to, to give more to donations and give to charities and things via Bitcoin. So I think it's something that is really an important thing to do now, as far as how you do it, we're going to have some future episodes about how we would recommend doing something like that.
Speaker 0 00:18:46 Uh, but generally speaking, uh, it's just a matter of putting your Bitcoin address out there. And if someone uses Bitcoin they'll know what to do with it, they'll know how to send money to you there. Uh, so it's a matter of getting that to set up an address. You'll probably use something like Coinbase, or I personally use one called crack. And that's the one that I use there for holding all of our Bitcoin, but there's lots of ways to do it, but I just want to put that out there for people, uh, something to be thinking about. I think that there are probably people in your church, almost certainly the people that have Bitcoin. I bet there are some of them wouldn't be open to giving that way. And if we want to give them another way that they can do that, I think that's only a win. So anything to add,
Speaker 3 00:19:26 Not much, you've educated me a lot on Bitcoin, obviously, uh, and are more knowledgeable about it. But I think I just would just simply end with just saying that, you know, it's another avenue for your church to receive donations. And I mean, when you have, uh, I guess we talked about giving less options, but we were mostly just talking about the credit card thing, but when you do have another option like this, it does open the door for someone to be able to, if the, to give more extravagantly, you might get an offering sizable offering that you wouldn't have other wise received. So I think it's worth, you know, maybe pastors educating themselves a little bit on, again, like you said, someone doesn't have to go become a cryptocurrency expert, but if you just make it available, you might be surprised on some of the benefits and you'll start receiving it and then figure, you know, figuring out a way to educate yourself a little bit more on it. So I think it's going to,
Speaker 0 00:20:15 You look at most, uh, most giving pages for very large churches. They have information on how people can give securities to their church. So if someone wants to give stocks or bonds or something, that to the church, they want to donate that. And I'm not at all saying that your church needs to hang on to the Bitcoin for or anything. It's just, you could get it and get rid of it and turn it into cash almost immediately. It's very easy to do that, but I think, think of it that way as a security that your church can use. And I think that would probably be a benefit to most churches.
Speaker 3 00:20:45 That's good, good stuff. I'll tackle next one. Online mistake, number five, not asking for donations, not asking. Right. So you have not because you ask not, we know that's right. So, but, uh, I, you know, it's tough, you know, it's tough, you know, and we're, you know, far be it from us to tell a pastor how to go about asking for donations or any. I, there are different ways, I guess we can suggest and share. What's worked for us or other churches and how they asked for donations. But I think it is still something many churches, uh, shy away from, or they're afraid to offend people by asking for money. Um, I've even been to churches in the past that they, they just say, Hey, we're, we're not going to ask about giving it all. Like, they don't even mention anything about an offering during the, the service or anything. They just, they, they believe against that. But I, I really think I know, no, we agree on this, that there's a big mistake and being tentative and not, you know, asking for donations is as long as it's done the right way and within the right heart, uh, with
Speaker 0 00:21:55 Some of the best advice I ever got as a pastor from pastor Robert Morris at a gateway church up in south lake, Texas. Uh, and, uh, he said, don't ever apologize for talking about giving. Uh, that is, uh, something that I think, uh, I needed to hear at that phase in my life. And it's something I haven't done. Cause I was that giving apologizer where I would say, you know, I'm sorry, we're talking about giving. And you came on the wrong weekend because we're talking about giving today. And I would just shoot myself in the foot. But my goodness I've learned for myself that there are few things in my life that have blessed me more than giving generously to those that God is doing tithing and living out that lifestyle that we're called to live as followers of Jesus. And so when you don't ask people to give you are robbing them of that opportunity to be blessed by the blessing that is giving.
Speaker 0 00:22:48 Uh, so it is so important. I think this goes back again to what we say in nearly every episode of this podcast. It's about calling people to action. And if on your website, you're not asking them to do something or please consider giving or, uh, teaching about tithing and, and helping people get over those humps and asking them to give, you're not going to get as much of a response as if you, if you did, if you're not doing that, it's not going to work for you. So you, you said it exactly right. You have not because you ask not. So make a habit of that. I'd also say part of increasing your online giving is talking about giving and asking people to give in person. So when you have your in-person services or if someone's watching your services online, make sure that you're talking about how people can give and remember this, if you are doing an in-person service that's recorded and also going to be online, make a point of when you do your offering time that you talk about giving online and not just giving, whether you walk up and give or put it in the buckets that go around, talk about it on Sunday mornings while you're doing that service.
Speaker 0 00:23:54 Because remember this is where people will have the most access to giving is not there on Sunday, it's throughout the week and doing it online. So I think that's really important to ask,
Speaker 3 00:24:03 Well said, well said, I want you to lead us home with the last mistake.
Speaker 0 00:24:07 So mistake number six is not sharing testimonies. Yeah, it is. It is so important again, in person and online to be telling stories about how people have seen victory have seen growth, have seen blessing that you tell these kinds of stories. Again, we are not people that are going to beat. We're not prosperity gospel teachers. We're not trying to say that. You're trying to tell that story that if you give, then you will be financially rewarded beyond your wildest dreams. No, that's not what we say. You know, that's not what we're saying here, but we do know that God blesses, those who give that's something that's taught biblically. It does not mean always financial blessing. Oftentimes it is oftentimes it isn't, it can be a family blessing. It could be just blessing of your children. It could be blessing your marriage. It could be blessing in your mental state, even though you might be poor it's I'm not even saying that that, that it's always going to be financial, but telling those stories, I think it helps people.
Speaker 0 00:25:09 It helps remind us of the benefits of giving and why it's not just for us. We don't do it for us, but there is a blessing that comes with it. So absolutely sharing those testimonies. They can be written. I think they're even more powerful if they're video testimonies that would go onto your website, telling those stories in person are also really important. But, uh, and this is a huge opportunity to share these stories. And if you do that right, and you do it consistently, I believe you'll see an increase in your giving. That's something that we have seen happening.
Speaker 3 00:25:39 And I think also to, you know, this also we'll get a church over the hump of, uh, you know, if it only comes from the pastor, you know, asking for donations or whatever, you know, again, that stigma of all the church only wants my money. Well, I know this saying the third party, credibility builder, you know, same thing. So when a business gets like testimonials of their service that they provide and everything that's called a third party credibility builder, because it's not coming from the business themselves, it's coming from someone who was blessed by the businesses services or enjoyed their services and would vouch for them. Same thing you're hearing this comes from a member, comes from someone there. Hi, remember, uh, I'll, I'll kind of close on this. I remember when I was saved in college, I've told you this story before. And, uh, when I was coming to vape, hub is on fire for Jesus.
Speaker 3 00:26:32 Just got saved probably about one of the first messages. I don't know, maybe third message or so that I heard was just on tithing. And you would think, you would think, oh no, here's a guy in college. He doesn't have his career yet, you know? Uh, and, uh, he's new to the faith and we're going to preach on tithing. That might be, uh, one of the biggest concerns a pastor would ever have. Right. But instead for me, I was, again, I was coming to faith on fire for God. I was taking the Lord at everything he said, and here I get this message about how test me in this and see if I don't pour more blessing on you than, you know, how to handle right out of Malakai. And I'm like, wow, I believe in you, God, I'm going to do this. And we did it, my wife and I, and, and we, and we saw the blessing right away. We did see some financial surprises after we did it, but we also spiritually, it grew our faith and trust in the Lord. And, and, and I have shared that story with video testimonials before I would have gone even more in depth than some of the things that, that happened after that. But I'll tell you that that changed me. It was one of the best things to hear my pastor at that time, be bold and, and give me the opportunity to take an another step in my faith. So it was great.
Speaker 0 00:27:51 Yeah. So I think that's exactly right. We, we, we are flooded with testimonies about how people's lives have been changed when they give the way God calls us to give. I have stories like that as a pastor, I've heard dozens of them. It's just a matter of, and just kind of getting in that discipline of taking the time to write them down and film them, do the things that go with it to make it something that other people could hear, because they are inspiring when we heard these kinds of stories here. So, uh, yeah, that's, that's really well Sadie, and I think that's a good way for us to wrap up here today. I will say we love testimonies too here at reach, right. So if you have any stories about how this podcast has helped you, uh, it would mean a lot to us. If you would let us know in the comments below, whether you're watching on YouTube or Facebook or on our website there, uh, the audio format, uh, thank you guys so much for being a part of our, our retried family comment rate review subscribe. That means a lot to us guys. So thanks so much for being with us this week and, uh, we'll catch you next week later.
Speaker 0 00:28:50 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out
[email protected]. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week.
