Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 In today's episode, we unpack seven at church website hacks for a better mobile experience. Today, most website browsing is happening on a mobile device, not on a desktop. Join us as we unpack some of the tips and tricks that your church can use to have a better experience on mobile devices. We hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow. This is the reach right podcast.
Speaker 1 00:00:34 You're listening to the reach, right podcast, the show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help you your church. See more visitors and grow.
Speaker 0 00:01:01 Hey guys, welcome to the retreat podcast episode number 51. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my co-host Ian Hyatt. Hey, what's up Thomas? Hey, not too much, man. Excited for our conversation here today. We're going to be talking about seven hacks for better mobile web designed for churches. Uh, I think this is something, this is a really important, uh, because, uh, well, uh, this is how most people see websites nowadays. Uh, your church website, if you're in the, in the past, uh, living and thinking that the way your website looks on a desktop or a laptop computer, uh, is the way most people see it. You are sorely mistaken. Uh, that is not the case anymore. This is how most people, uh, visit websites now, uh, it just crept up over 60% of browsing is happening on mobile devices versus computers. So, uh, we're almost two thirds at this point is what we're looking at,
Speaker 2 00:01:56 Man. That's a big number, big number. Yeah. You just made me think of something funny too. It's like, how often do you think most people, when they look up something online, they just hold on a second. I need to run to my office and get on my desktop and fire my computer. Exactly. No, go ahead. Yeah, they just take their phone out of their pocket or whatever, if they're not already holding it in their hand.
Speaker 0 00:02:16 That's exactly right. I'm so thankful for that. Like how many, uh, kitchen table discussions are, are solved because of your phone or, uh, you know, nowadays E and we'll talk, we'll have another episode about this here. Soon as there's even voice search as a whole. Another thing that we really have to be serious about because in our household, what we typically do is just talk to the, to the Google home or to the Alexa and say, Hey, Alexa, you know, what was the, what year was Michael Jackson's dangerous released or whatever the question is that we're, we're sitting around the table talking about and trying to figure it out here. So, but so mobile is king now. Uh, and it's something that every church needs to take. Seriously. That being said, we talked to a lot of churches that still wouldn't, they think of their website, uh, at at least when critiquing their website, they're primarily looking at it from a desktop or a laptop perspective. Uh, even though that's only, you know, close to a third of the views are happening there, and two thirds are happening on mobile devices nowadays. Uh, so, um, now what do you think about that? That's crazy. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 00:03:17 And, and, and, and, and you're right. Yeah. I think that it's still, and it's just, it's something that I think we all do. And, and, or maybe it's just time goes on, pastors, do they just, they, they kind of have it in their minds when, you know, w what, how they use the internet, but they're not thinking of, you know, the population as a whole. And so it's easy for, for us to degress, I guess, in ministry and go back to the, uh, you know, ancient ways of doing web design. So
Speaker 0 00:03:44 What it is is as someone who's lived through the web design world for both the desktop king and the mobile king era's, I will say one of the challenges for developers is that usually when we develop, we're not developing on mobile devices, right? So we're not designing websites on our phones. We're not designing them on tablets, we're designing them on computers. And so usually we're checking them on computers and looking first at what it looks like on a computer. And that's something we're trying to change in our own culture here at retried is that we design on a computer, but we look first and foremost at what it looks like on a, on a mobile device, and we try to develop accordingly. So to that end, uh, we came up with a list of seven different hacks that churches can utilize here to, uh, take some step towards a, a better mobile experience for users on their website.
Speaker 0 00:04:36 Uh, these are gonna be things that are probably universal. It's not specific to churches. Uh, but I think that there are a lot of things that we see churches miss all the time. I would say, uh, different tricks that things that, uh, that I think would give mobile users a better experience. So I'll go ahead and kick us off with the first one. Number one is I think that churches, if you want to make a better mobile experience, you need to find a way to ditch the drop-downs, uh, ditching the drop is really important. So, uh, so we're really clear about what we're talking about. Drop-downs are those menus we used to use, uh, and this was a big thing we used to, I think, at, at, at our old company, we used to sell drop downs. It's like an add on, I feel like that was like an additional fee you could pay if you wanted the menu. So that's when you hover your mouse over the navigation, and then it drops down to show all the sub pages. And I mean, that, then it really got churches. We kept going deeper. So you'd have a dropdown and then sub dropdowns, and I've even seen like fourth tier dropdowns, like keep going. Yeah. Downey. And then
Speaker 2 00:05:39 The mega nav, then the mega nav came out now.
Speaker 0 00:05:41 Yeah. The cake comes out. And so you have, and this is just a symptom of just having so much content and really not spending the time on, on your architecture to, to really make sure it's laid out in a thoughtful kind of a way. But, uh, so what used to happen is you would have these drop-downs, you'd have to hover your mouse over them. And then if you add a second tier, you'd hover at a very precise place over to the second tier, and then to the third tier. And how many times would you like accidentally move your mouse out of them? The whole menu would go away.
Speaker 2 00:06:09 You accidentally click on another page and I didn't want to go to that page. And then you've got to go back up there and do it again.
Speaker 0 00:06:14 So this kind of complexity in your dropdowns and in your menus is something that really is, uh, it works against the mobile experience as a whole. So we, for the last several years, really, since our inception at retreat, we have encouraged churches to move away from dropdown menus. And this is something that we've got a lot of pushback about over the years, because this is hard, right? W when, because churches they're, they're used to having an about page that has a separate leadership page and a separate beliefs page, and a separate history page, and a separate vision page and values page and admissions page, and all these different pages with our philosophy has always been why don't we just do, um, like not have a drop down and have all this on one page. And so we'll talk a little bit more about that in the next point with this here. But I think that moving away from the drop-downs is something that is an easy, tangible thing. And the reason for this is because drop-downs are best when you hover a mouse, hovering a finger, doesn't work for them, right. These devices aren't smart enough to know is your finger right above the, the link here. So it doesn't really work the same way. So what do you have to add to that again? I'll add, yeah, one
Speaker 2 00:07:22 More thing other than what you said, and that's that people are even more impatient when they're browsing on your website these days because of mobile browsing, because we can easily chat. We don't have to sit down or open up our laptop or, or even fire up the tablet, even though people still use all those things. Most people are going to be coming on their phone. And they're very impatient. I mean, how many things come up, do you come across when you're on your phone? How many, you know, now with cookies and everything, remembering, everyone's being hit by all of these marketing messages and not only that going to different sites and the more that someone has to click through and search on their phone, they're more frustrated they're going to get, and they're going to check out and leave. So I would add that, that just, that's why having just one link for them to click on or an easy mobile navigation without drop-downs, that's going to get people to what they're looking for quicker, and you're going to keep them longer on your website that way.
Speaker 0 00:08:18 Yep. That's right. So number one, ditch, the drop-downs, what do you have for number two number
Speaker 2 00:08:23 Is use longer pages. So this has been a trend for the last few years, and, you know, it's funny, I get feedback, you know, when I'm having conversations with pastors and ministry leaders on, I just can't stand how it scrolls down for miles and miles and this page, but I'm like, well, you know what? You may not be able to stand up. And most people that's how they're browsing that, you know, we can thank social media. We can thank Facebook, Instagram, everyone is thumbing down longer pages. Now they're used to scrolling. So it's become the norm and acceptable to most people that are, that are browsing and even news websites now. Right? In news, any, any site I go to it's, you're going to thumb down from your phone on there. So people are used to it now, it's time for churches to embrace that.
Speaker 2 00:09:15 So what we're talking about too, and this is perfect that this one came after ditching. The drop-downs is because if someone just clicks on your about page, you can have all of the things on that about page that you would have had with maybe five dropdown menu. So you can have your mission and vision. And we found that, you know, again, getting back to Mo a lot of church websites, I still see in church websites in the past, they would have a drop-down for their mission vision. You know, they would have a drop-down for beliefs. They would have a dropdown for staff. And there wasn't really, even on a mission envision page, there was really only like a few sentences on a lot of them. So it didn't even need its own page. So you can have a longer page where you greet someone with your mission and vision, they can thumb down and get to your values.
Speaker 2 00:10:06 You can have a staff section there, and these are, well-designed kind of sections on a page and someone's dumbing down beliefs. This is a difficult one, right? For most churches, because churches are, our beliefs can get exhaustive. So you can keep those simple on, on this page and just have, you know, your, your kind of core beliefs. And if someone wants to link out from there to like another, you know, your statement of faith or whatever, they can do that. So the reason I kind of use that about pages and example is that you can have these longer pages. Now people are used to thumbing down. And usually what we found in doing pages like this is that there's plenty of room for your content. And honestly, people don't have to go down for miles and miles if you're keeping it simple. Anyway, I think
Speaker 0 00:10:53 That's right. Um, there's a few different strategies that we use to, I think the term we use is we want to do well-designed long pages. So please don't hear us saying that this, that the right way to do it. It's just to make a long page with 4,000 words of text, that's it, that's not what we're saying. We're talking about having every page, at least your main pages being really well-designed having graphics in each section, having distinct sections for mission and vision and frequently asked questions and welcome videos. And this is just for the about page for some of those longer text portions, like a belief section, or maybe you want a history section on your site, you can use things like accordions. So this is something where you click on a title or a heading and it'll pop out and show you all that.
Speaker 0 00:11:38 So maybe under the, what we believe heading there is an accordion is what we believe about sin. And someone can click on that. And then you have your hundred word answer about your, your statement of belief on that. So it makes it a nice clean way to present that kind of a content. But yeah, I think longer pages is the answer to dropping the dropdowns. How many times did we see churches that had pages literally with like one sentence on them? Like, they're the one that's always notorious that is men's ministry pages, right? It's usually like the women's ministry have like a couple hundred words and lot 11 things, and then there's the men's ministry. And it just says we value men. We have a breakfast on Wednesdays at eight,
Speaker 2 00:12:18 You say breakfast, breakfast, men's breakfast. That's
Speaker 0 00:12:21 Exactly right. So probably don't need a page for two sentences. That's the new rule of mobile design, but that could fit in a ministry section on a ministries page where you have a, a heading for men's ministry. That, that makes a lot more sense that way. So yeah, as longer pages, that's where it's at. So, uh, let me hit number three, uh, that is simplify your navigation. So kind of staying in the same theme, a lot of mobile design, it really is. It forces you to take a hard look and actually put in the time and thought to thinking through your navigation, you know, so I'm telling you this year, but for our audience, for our customers, when we do a consulting project for a website, we spend more time on that than any other, I guess, segment of the entire development process, I'd say is just really putting our heads together and thinking about how we organize the information on their site.
Speaker 0 00:13:13 And there's a lot of things that are similar from church to church. Like, so most churches are going to have a staff section and about section and, uh, what we believe and that kind of content there. You know, we usually lay those things out the same way, but, you know, every church is really different when it comes to how they do discipleship and how people get involved with serving and the different ways that they do small groups. And it takes some thought to think about how you think through this. So I'd say on average, we spend an hour and a half, maybe even two hours on a lot of these calls, uh, talking through how are we going to organize this information? So you need to put your, your head into this. And, and the goal of that should be, especially for mobile, is to simplify your navigation.
Speaker 0 00:13:55 Uh, so thinking through ways to, to make that kind of a thing happen, how can we get, uh, how can we make fewer pages and an easier navigation because on a mobile device, just finding each and every page to link to is harder than it is on a desktop device there. So, um, what we do at retreat, uh, as we have actually a totally separate navigation for mobile and for our, our normal, uh, visits. So we have fewer options on our mobile view. Uh, so when someone gets on there on a mobile device, we just have a couple of our primary buttons, the main things we want someone to do. And I think churches should do the same thing, a automobile device. You don't want to skip that plan, your visit, or I'm a new button, but you might not need to get every little bit of your, uh, of your navigation in there. So just finding ways to simplify that, I think that's really, yeah, important. It's
Speaker 2 00:14:47 Funny. We just came out of a project yesterday for a church that they, and it was really, they're really fun to work with. Cause they, they really, not only, uh, we were on the same page, they wanted something super simple and mobile geared. And I think we got their navigation down to like, uh, their main navigation. And what was it? Four or five pages. There
Speaker 0 00:15:06 Was three items in a button. It was three items at a time.
Speaker 2 00:15:10 Yeah, that's it. So, and, and it was organized really when that we don't do that for every, sometimes most churches end up with a few more than that, but they, they definitely were on board with simplifying the, the site navigation. So, so let me say why I
Speaker 0 00:15:25 Think that that's okay. Is I think that if you really think about your, your website strategically, uh, one of the things that we're trying to do is get people to, to take a step or to responder in marketing, where we call it using a call to action, asking them to do something. And so I think that it, you're probably better off, uh, having a few strong pages with strong calls to action that having 45 pages with 45 different calls to action that people almost never will do. So I think just from a strategic standpoint, uh, most, I think non churches get this. Uh, but we just really feel like in churches, a lot of houses we have to, we have to get, I have to cram everything into that main navigation piece there. And I think that's really, uh, a mistake that a lot of us make with that. So yeah. Simplify your navigation. That's important.
Speaker 2 00:16:14 Yeah. Good. I'll tackle the next one here, which is skip the slider, the slider menu, or rotating main image, graphic area. There's so many words people use for that, but we all kind of know what this is. And this was probably a trend I would say about six years ago. Maybe it's kind of, when we started seeing it die off for good reason, I still get a lot of churches that are requesting, uh, on their homepage and that main graphic area that pops up underneath the navigation, um, that they want, you know, a big sliding, rotating image piece there they want. And the, the, the goal behind it is knowable it's. They want to have, you know, their sermon series, maybe the graphic for that pop up and then the Denon event. And maybe like, uh, you know, uh, another image of a families and, you know, just a mixture of different things. But the problem is, again, because of mobile browsing, no, one's going to sit there just like, they don't want to go to your website to watch a movie. Um, they're not going to sit there and they just don't have the patience for that anymore. Um, so that's what we're,
Speaker 0 00:17:23 I really want to see what this next image is behind this first one, here I, this, this first one just really touched me to see the name of that sermon. So let's see what the next one, it's an event. That's interesting. Nobody's doing that, right. And here's why is that? Uh, this is something that your members may care about, but visitors don't visitors don't really care. Uh they're they're not there to see what your sermon series, uh, is or what your upcoming events are. That is an internal way of thinking and not an external way. And the reason why it's, I think it's bad for desktops too, but it's especially bad for mobile browsing because full screen, big images that rotate are slow. They take a long time to load, and that actually hurts your mobile scores. And it makes you less likely to come up on searches when people are searching on a mobile device, because what Google does is they take a look at it and they say, well, we would, we have a couple of options of different pages to show for when someone searches for churches in my neighborhood.
Speaker 0 00:18:22 Uh, so we can show this one on this mobile device that loads in, uh, three tenths of a second, or this one to load all the images. It takes nine seconds. Let's show the other one. And so you're basically penalized, you're paying a penalty in viewers to show that slider there. So it is something that is a huge no-no I think, uh, no churches should be doing it now. Yeah. You could make a case for it. Maybe being further down your homepage. Like sometimes we'll do that in the events area. So a slider for different events, but if your main full screen image on there is a giant event image, you're probably doing it wrong. Yeah. And you,
Speaker 2 00:18:59 You touched on something that I think is really important to also reiterate and that's that, you know, a potential visitor. I like to phrase it that way because people getting, looking for a church they're not yet, some of them may be, were invited in and they know that they're coming, they're going to the website. Obviously just get a little bit of info before they come. But we got to think about that person. That's just looking for churches near me looking for a new church. And maybe it's someone who's never even been to a church before. We can't assume that they're going to be interested in all of our events and sermon series and all of that. So we, so when you think outside, you know, an outside perspective, you know, you're going to think of that person. And instead, now we see the trend of just having a still graphic image that kind of sums up who you are as a church, what you're all about in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Speaker 2 00:19:50 And then that also that image needs to resonate in kind of compel them to look for. So it needs to be about them, mostly that image, and then call them to action and give them just a feel of who you are within a matter of seconds. And then we also see if it's not just one image we have, like these really brief, we call them video backgrounds, I guess they're called different, different things where it's just a very, maybe 12, second loop of, of like the Sunday morning experience. But again, that makes it about the visitor. Cause they're seeing, okay, these are the people I'm seeing on Sunday. It's very brief kids having a good time. Maybe someone getting, and that's how week that's a whole nother consultation in subject, but those are the trends now for good reason. And based on what you were sharing there.
Speaker 0 00:20:34 Yeah. No good stuff. Yeah. That's awesome. Let me hit the next one. Uh, what are the most important rules for mobile browser is you need to compress your images. Uh, having big images, like we just talked about with the slider images are too big. It takes a lot longer to load and therefore you pay a penalty on searches and Google stopped showing your website on mobile searches. If your site takes too long to load so compressing and making sure your images are the right size, especially on mobile devices, this is something that's really important. Uh, so, um, there's several reasons for this, but one of the things is people need to realize is that when you take a picture, uh, even on any modern phone right now, the picture that it spits out is way too big for any website application. Those things are usually like five megabytes or 10 megabytes for, I have a galaxy S 21.
Speaker 0 00:21:27 I know if you have a brand new iPhone, you're going to get a 10 megabyte picture. If you do pictures on high settings, which you should be taking pictures on high settings, that is, uh, a 10 megabyte picture is about a hundred times too big to go onto your website. Uh, that's, that's an enormous file because as a general rule, we try to keep most images under a hundred kilobytes. Uh, so that's 0.1 megabytes is what that turns out to be, so that this is a huge difference. So if you just take raw images from your phone, throw them onto your website, you are killing someone's experience on this. Uh, so it's really important that you, uh, that you compress all of your images, make sure they're sized appropriately. Our rule is about a hundred kilobytes. Maybe if it's a really big centerpiece kind of image, 150 could be okay. Uh, but really the smaller, the better. And the thing that I think that's the, I see people making a mistake with a lot is not just those giant images. Sometimes it's the little ones. Sometimes it's like a little logo or something like that, that you have one place and you forgot to compress it. And that logo is actually a giant image. That's reduced down to being a tiny little thing, but it's totally slowing down your site. So that's really important what you have to add to that. Not much. I
Speaker 2 00:22:41 Think you covered that one. I, I I'll segue to the next one. We touched
Speaker 0 00:22:45 On. Let me mention one thing though. Yeah. One thing to mentioned, if you are using a WordPress site, I, I do want to add this part to it. If you're using a WordPress site, there are a couple of really good plugins. The one we recommend is one called WP smush, funny name, I know WP smush. That is a program that basically pictures and smashes, the pictures that you load in pictures, it compresses them to the optimal size for a mobile browser. Uh, so it really gets some nice and small WP smush. We couldn't recommend that enough. Forgive
Speaker 2 00:23:17 Me for being impatient or not allowing you to get our listeners a good resource there. So, anyway, good. So the next one excited to tackle is creating a mobile menu. We kind of, we addressed this a little bit when we talked about drop downs and those types of things. So, but what this is really all about is that your website, navigation and menu should be different on a desktop or a laptop compared to on a phone, just because of how small a is and how things present themselves there. When someone goes to your site, you want to have a different kind of mobile navigation. And when you're getting a website developed with good responsive design, and someone's really whoever you're using has a good mobile geared approach and mobile first approach. As we like to say, we have, then this should be something that can be accomplished.
Speaker 2 00:24:08 And these are often things like hamburger navs, and maybe everyone is, I think seeing these to a certain extent, if you, if you browse with your smartphone or iPhone, that's where there there's three little lines and you kind of can just, so it looks like a hamburger. You got the bun on top, the meat in the middle button on the bottom. And so three little lines and people are used to just, I usually, I end up using my thumb for one of these. And then when someone hits that it's like a pop-out navigation and it makes it really easy to get to the information. So we like hamburger navigations and there's, there's other ways of doing it.
Speaker 0 00:24:43 Yeah, there definitely are. I think that the main takeaway is that it's important to have a couple of different, a couple of different menus. You should have a different menu for your desktop site and for your mobile site, we talked about that a little bit before you could probably reduce the amount of content, but then you can use those hamburger navs or those pop outs to get all the rest of your content. So it's accessible. People can get in there and they can sometimes function almost like dropdown menus. But I think that they're really a useful way to do those kinds of things. But yeah, I think that you hit the most of it. Ian, is that having a, a solid, uh, a solid navigation. I was going to say secondary navigation, really a surprise, very navigation, because this is what most people will see, uh, and then thinking of your desktop on as your secondary navigation. So yeah, I think that that's really important. Yeah. And I think one thing to
Speaker 2 00:25:31 Add to that, I think make no mistake about a week. We believe your website should still function and look great on a desktop and a laptop. You can still accomplish that. So you're not sacrificing one over the other. You just, it is good to have a mobile first approach and menu because that's where most people are going. So want to make sure people are hearing this right? We're not saying have an ugly desktop view of your website or something that doesn't flow well there. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:25:56 Cool. I'll tackle the last one here. Um, and it's a utilize amp. Yeah. So most people don't know what that is, what amp is, but it's an acronym for accelerated mobile pages. That's what act is, uh, and it is a new kind of protocol and a way that I don't want to get too technical with this. That's not the point of this podcast here, how to do it. Exactly. Uh, but it's a, uh, a protocol and kind of a markup language, uh, that you would put onto your site that lets it serve a different version of your content, uh, with it detects that people are on a mobile device and it's really, uh, it's really honed for speed. So it's something that really delivers it fast. It strips out a lot of images and it makes it really an easy, simple experience for a mobile device there.
Speaker 0 00:26:44 And so, uh, you should be using this. Uh, the challenge is that it can be kind of difficult, but I want to just to give a resource to our, uh, our listeners here. Uh, there are great tools on the WordPress system, which if you're not on WordPress, we are huge fans of it. We develop almost exclusively on WordPress because we think it is the best system to build websites on. It has been for several years now and it remains that, uh, so WordPress has an official amp plugin, uh, and really it's something as simple as turning it on you, install it and turn it on. And it basically does a version of mobile version of all your pages that speeds it up and delivers that much faster. So this is something that's used by almost all major news publishers. Uh, and that's why when, uh, you look at your news feed or those kinds of things out there, you'll, you'll see those news publishers are always showing up because they use really lightening fast mobile pages.
Speaker 0 00:27:38 Uh, that's been, uh, Washington post. They, they, uh, you can say what you will about their news content and quality, but that's part of what they, uh, they kind of put out there as the reason for their success in this digital world is they really leaned heavy into accelerated mobile pages. And that's why their, their content is served up more than just about anybody. So, uh, get leading into this, um, you, you will need a developer to help you with this. Or you could use a plugin like this, uh, official amp plugin for WordPress, but it is definitely something worth looking into, you
Speaker 2 00:28:09 Said something in there that caught my ear. You said it strips out images.
Speaker 0 00:28:13 Yeah, it does. It actually strips out images that aren't required. You can certainly, uh, it, if you dedicate images and say, these are images that need to be here. So it's not something that you're going to use maybe for like your home page on your site. You want good, but this is something that maybe for like a sermon page or for blog posts, uh, if the main point of the page is to get content to people, have them read the story or listen, or watch the sermon, it'll ship out all of the fluff and just give them the main meat of the content. That's what it's about.
Speaker 2 00:28:42 Yeah. I liked that. I think just to sum it up, it's all about speed. It's about getting back to what we said. People are more impatient when they're browsing from their phones. They're not sitting down in front of a desktop spending all of their time right there. So speed, speed kills as the saying goes and especially for mobile, right?
Speaker 0 00:28:59 Yep. That's exactly right. Yeah. I think this is something that every church needs to be taking seriously nowadays, because, uh, just to reiterate this as almost two thirds of your traffic is coming through on your side. So Hey, do this. If this is something that's meant that pull up your phone and take a look at your church website. Now look, take a look at how it looks on your phone right now. And you can kind of see whether this is something you need to, uh, you know, to put some more attention into, just pull it out, take a look. Don't just make this kind of in theory, you'll forget about it. Uh, I think if you actually take a look and see, Hey, how does it feel? And try to think of it from the perspective of not someone who knows your church and knows your church website, but as someone who's never been on there before someone who's a visitor for the first time is they need to see right on that screen there, can they navigate around quickly?
Speaker 0 00:29:45 Does it load quickly? Uh, just yesterday I was on our, our state, uh, car registration website because I had to register my car. I got that terrible thing in the mail that says, you have to register your car again, which is super expensive here, but that's neither here nor there. But I get onto there on my phone trying to get my car registered, which is nice. I can do it online at least, but there's nothing mobile friendly about it. So I have to wind up doing that thing where you turn your phone. So it's more like a desktop format and I'm having to like scroll off to the right to find all the, the menu pieces and that kind of stuff there. So yeah, it really is something that is, uh, it's something we need to take seriously or else we're giving people bad experiences. So pull out your phone, take a look. Uh, I hope this has been a helpful conversation to you today. And, uh, if this has been, it would also mean the world to us. If you guys would rate, review, subscribe, comment, let your friends know that you've been jumping in on this. And, uh, we just thank you so much for being part of our retreat family. And we'll catch you guys next
Speaker 3 00:30:43 Week. <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:30:48 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, right studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week. <inaudible>.
