Is It Wrong to Charge for Church Events?

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Let me ask you a question at your church. Is it okay to charge for church events? Well, that's a debate that stirs up lots of emotions, and we're gonna discuss that in today's episode. We hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow. This is the reach right podcast, Speaker 1 00:00:22 You know, help. Speaker 0 00:00:27 You're listening to the reach, right podcast, the show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always as my co-host Ian Hyat, we're here to help your church see more visitors and grow, Speaker 2 00:00:47 Ready to get ready to get. Speaker 0 00:00:54 Hey guys, welcome to the reach right podcast episode number 102. This is your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my co-host Speaker 4 00:01:02 Ian Hyat. What's up Thomas. Speaker 0 00:01:04 Hey, not much, man. Excited to chat today. We have a, a question we're gonna be answering today. Is it wrong to charge for church events? Ooh. Uh, I think this is something that I have pondered many times I've been asked this question before it's come up in our staff meetings at churches at church before. And it's something that I think all of us kind of, uh, maybe wrestle with, is it right to charge? How much should we charge? Yeah. Uh, do we do that? Um, so I think it should be a good conversation for us to kind of talk through Speaker 4 00:01:30 Yeah, good topic. I think it's something that churches have kind of struggled with for a little while, you know, as far as the decision making on this very thing. And uh, so hopefully we can, uh, give them some quality, uh, help with all this. Speaker 0 00:01:43 Yeah, I think let's, let's start out by talking a little bit about what we mean when we say charging for a church event. Like what is a church event? So right. Obviously we're not talking about church services, if you've ever wondered, should I charge for my church service? The answer is no, you should not charge for church services. You shouldn't charge for salvation. Baptism should be free. Um, I do see some churches, especially, uh, I, let me take a step back on this. Cause I do think it's a question that we do get is should we charge for online services? Um, because that was a model that a lot of churches were using. Uh, I don't see it as much anymore. Yeah. But there are, are still some churches that have their, their content library yeah. Behind a pay wall. So you gotta become a member or pay $10 a month or something like that to be able to watch services online. Speaker 0 00:02:32 Right. I am also against that. Um, I think that's probably not a good idea. I think that, you know, here we make a podcast and all kinds of content that we produce and we found that it's best to do it for free. Uh, and I think not just for spiritual reasons, but just for reaching more people and having a bigger impact, I think churches should give away content in general for free. Right. I think that's something that is probably important. So I don't know. Do you have a, a different thought on that or have you seen churches, uh, charging for online services? Speaker 4 00:03:02 I, you know, and you know, that I'm, I'm kind of on the front lines here, uh, at reach. Right. And so I, I communicate with so many different pastors ministry leaders, um, and I don't run into it like you and I used to run into it, probably what, you know, early, mid two thousands late maybe. And then it, I think, you know, the light bulb went off, uh, for a lot of, uh, the churches that used to do this, that as to why they shouldn't. Um, and not to say that you can't sell any sort of merch or, or whatever. Uh, but, um, I don't see it as much anymore. One out of a thousand maybe churches that I come Speaker 0 00:03:38 Across. Yeah. Very rare. U I think when I find it most is we'll get a, uh, a client maybe will come to us or someone is coming to us for consulting. Yeah. But they're not the pastor of the church. Usually they say, Hey, pastor said he wants to be able for us to charge for our events. And then we have to kind of, uh, you know, through a third party, try and explain why that's a bad idea, uh, right. We wanna be able to, we don't wanna be charging in general for, uh, for services or for the backlog. You could maybe make a case for a one off event that's happening online. So if you have maybe a marriage conference, right. That is, uh, you're doing an online version of it. You could maybe have a fee to cover the streaming costs or those kinds of things there. Speaker 0 00:04:20 Sure. So there is something to be said for that, but, um, yeah, I, I think I agree that I'm seeing it less and less, but today we're gonna be talking mostly about actual events that happen, uh, at the church or offsite. So, uh, some examples, things like conferences, uh men's and women's nights, uh, you know, vacation Bible school, uh, youth camp, um, all of these kinds of things. So I think the answer to some of these is yes, the answer to other ones is maybe no. Right. And so we'll kind of talk through a little bit of how we think about how you should answer that question of whether we should be charging for this event or not. I guess that's kind of the goal today is yeah. Our thought process and giving you a framework of how we think through the way to answer that question for each church there. So, uh, maybe you could start us off again. What are some of the things that churches should be thinking about, uh, when they think about whether or not they should be charging for an event or not? Yeah. Speaker 4 00:05:16 Yeah. I would say one, uh, the first one to consider here is it will charging or not charging affect the quality of the event. Yeah. Um, you know, I think that we're in this culture where people have high expectations about any event that they come to, maybe lower on some of the, the events out there that, um, are church related and non-church related even mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, so I think that's a good question asked versus, okay, if we don't charge, will we be missing something or will, you know, it just not be that impactful or enjoyable to the people that come to the event or, you know, if we do charge, you know, is that going to really make it a, a much better event? Speaker 0 00:05:58 Yeah, absolutely. I, I think the perfect example of this is summer camps for kids. Right, right. So I am a huge believer in camping. I know your kids, uh, you sent them away to, to church camps and those things before. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:06:10 Yeah. But Speaker 0 00:06:11 Church camp, uh, kids have a lot of fun, but I don't know if this is your experience or not, but it is getting expensive to send your kids to, to church camp nowadays. So I think I just saw the one that our church it's like $800 per kid for a week long camp. And, you know, that's, I don't know, you know, maybe that's reasonable in some places. Uh, I imagine that there's parts of the country where that sounds cheap. There's parts of the country where that sounds ridiculous. Right. I think that this is one of those things where how much kids invest. It will greatly affect the quality of the event, how much parents are able to put into this here. So if you want your kids to be able to be doing water sports, uh, and archery and horseback riding and all these things, well, yeah, there's a cost that comes with that. Uh, when you're doing it at a summer camp, if you want them just to have a place to sleep and then a place to study the Bible all day, the rest of the day <laugh>, then it might be cheaper to do something like that there. So, you know, in those kinds of cases, I think that's one of those things you have to wrestle with it. It does make sense to charge yeah. For something when there is that kind of a benefit. So when the quality is affected, it really makes a big difference. Speaker 4 00:07:17 You know, it's so funny. Uh, um, you've made me think of two good examples. You know, I'm a part of a large church as we've discussed on many of our episodes. And, and so, you know, often we do it up big and, uh, our church has found over the years, we, we, this year, we are deciding to do something on campus to save parents cost because the last summer, um, we, you know, we did the big, they leave, uh, there wasn't horseback riding, but there were all other sorts of crazy events and, and the big, uh, blobs that they can bounce off into in the lake pool stuff. Speaker 0 00:07:53 Doobs yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Awesome. Speaker 4 00:07:55 Absorbs. Yeah. Is that what it's called BL? I say, Speaker 0 00:07:57 Well, absorbs are the ones that you get inside those big, clear Bob, you said those big BLS. Yeah. We've have those things. Speaker 4 00:08:02 We've done that too. So, so we kind of, you know, we found that it was tough, you know, for a couple of seasons for a lot of parents. And so we, we scaled it back a little bit this season, but I'll tell you this on the, on the flip side, um, there is a church in our area that actually is known for putting on the best summer camp and they have, they are known for it. They only charge $35 and basic. Yeah, I know. And here's what they do. They charge $35. Your kid will be there for a full week. Uh, they will even take them to the water parks, local different water parks. This Speaker 0 00:08:40 Is a day camp, right. They're not spending the night there day Speaker 4 00:08:42 PS, let me clarify. Gotcha. But in that whole lump sum of a day, they have food. They have so many different events, so many creative things. They take certain age kids off campus to like bowling and other video game stuff or other events. Wow. And, and, and now, but this particular church they're known for that. And they have a lot of unchurched families that, that take them there at the end, they put on a big drama and thing with the kids and, and invite all the parents long story short, it's something they budget for, uh, throughout the year so that they can be known for barely charging any sort of a Speaker 0 00:09:21 Fee. Yeah. There's no way that $35 covers that. Right. Speaker 4 00:09:24 No, have to cover it. So, but they're known for that. So, you know, just made me think of that. It's an interesting two, two different, you know, situations altogether. So Speaker 0 00:09:33 Yeah, no, there's definitely an evangelistic component to it and will it reach more people that way? We'll talk more about that in a bit. So I, I think the next question that I would ask is, uh, you need to consider whether you should charge or not. I think food is the big question. Will there be food at this event? Uh, and when there is food, sometimes it, it makes sense to charge if there is food. Now my preference is if you can get away with giving some good food and making it something that doesn't cost a lot of money, or if you could still do it for free, I still prefer that. Uh, but, uh, food is one of those questions that a lot of churches have to wrestle with. So, um, I don't know, does your church, uh, ever consider that or think about that when you guys do events? Speaker 4 00:10:14 Try not to laugh out loud here. Um, a little while back our church, we're known for doing a man night every year, and this is a men's ministry event is typically a speaker games and all of that, and typically has always been food. Right. Uh, yeah. Um, so that's, that's a way to a man's heart for sure. Makes it appealing to a man, for sure. So one year we, we charged a decent amount, uh, for this event. And, uh, and I attended the event, brought a couple of my buddies and, uh, and low and behold, you know, after paying this fee and having some expectations and there were some muscle cars there and all sorts of cool stuff, but, uh, we, you know, come hungry and all of a sudden we are given one little tiny sloppy Joe with a bag of chips <laugh>, uh, and it was kind of like, you know, what's going on here? Uh, how Speaker 0 00:11:04 Much did it cost? I mean, was it a couple bucks or what was, Speaker 4 00:11:07 What was the price on? No, it was probably close to around $40 or so the, the, it was in that ballpark. And so there were some expectations, uh, yeah, that were met. We learned from that now, what Speaker 0 00:11:17 Did your friends say? Speaker 4 00:11:19 Uh, they just agreed with me that, uh, that we gotta, we gotta go stop by, you know, a burger place after this or something like that. So, you know, so it was one of those deals we learned from it and, uh, we always want to include food in men's events. So, uh, yeah, we didn't make the same mistake twice. Speaker 0 00:11:36 Yeah. I, that, that is funny to hear. I, I am definitely of the opinion of when, even if there is food, if you can pull it off and not charge for something like that, I think it makes a lot of sense, uh, because I think that it'll, well, we'll talk more about this, but it'll probably play a part in how many people show up if you're having the charge, uh, for food and in the grand scheme of things, you can probably execute that well and, and do it at a, a discounted rate, especially if it's sloppy Joe and chips, those kinds of things may not be that much there. So Speaker 4 00:12:04 I think the next time we did it, it was everyone pile up their plates with barbecue and all the fixings and, and, uh, you know, help yourself, but Speaker 0 00:12:11 Sandbag some of your money there, Speaker 4 00:12:13 Not a, not a buffet, but, uh, but, but a pilot on, and, uh, we're sorry for last year. Speaker 0 00:12:19 <laugh> yeah, there you go. That's good. They made it right. Yeah. Speaker 4 00:12:21 That's awesome. I'll get the next one. Is, are you offering something unique? I think that's a great question. First of all, for any event you wanna plan charge or not, you know, is it unique and if it is something specifically, uh, unique, um, then, you know, maybe it is something that, uh, maybe it's a, it's a well known speaker, someone that someone's gonna know. Um, and you know, of course you gotta cover, uh, the, the fee of, of, of bringing that speaker out and all of that, then I might justify it. Um, you know, not just with speakers, is it, you know, we've talked all about what kind of games are you gonna have? What, what equipment is involved, what, you know, is it something compelling enough and unique enough in this case to where you charge for it? And if you, and if you are gonna charge, I, I would say if you're gonna charge for an event, I, there needs to be some sort of uniqueness to it is my opinion, I guess. Speaker 0 00:13:11 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, I think that that's really a big question. I think summer camp, again, is like the right example of that. You do all kinds of things that are so unique that just, you know, horses cost money, uh, to feed and get 'em to get there. And, uh, if you want to, uh, I I've been to summer camps, but when I was a kid where they did like wakeboarding and these kinds of things. Yeah. So there's obvious costs involved with some of those kinds of things there. So the more unique it is, the more it makes sense to have, uh, some kind of a fee. But I think that goes in tandem though, with here is the ultimate question for me is number four, is, will it affect the number of people that we're able to reach, uh, by charging for this event? Speaker 0 00:13:49 The answer to that question is always yes. Um, so the price that you charge for anything will have a direct relation to the number of people that are able to take advantage of it. So we are a business at reach right here. Uh, if we did all of our services for free, we would have a lot more work than because we charge for it. We have less work, right? So yeah, we, we have to charge a reasonable amount to be able to cover ourselves. Now we're a business and churches, you know, we're not businesses, but there are still some of those same principles we do costs, uh, and things that we have to cover with that there. So, yeah. Um, this is something like, I, when I think about things like a man night or a woman night or something like that in our church, even if there is food, this is the overarching question for me, is, will it affect how many people are able to show up at this event? Speaker 0 00:14:38 Because when I hear that there's a man night at our church, but it's $40. You know, I'm not the kind of guy that spends $40 on a meal very often. I don't, I don't, when I go out with my wife for a really nice dinner, I'll do that. Yeah. I maybe, I don't know. Some have accused me of being kind of cheap, maybe that I, I wouldn't go out and do these kinds of things on my own. So sure. When I hear $40 man night, my immediate response is, ah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's, yeah, that sounds sure it'll be fun. And you know, you'll have the power team there ripping phone books or whatever you're gonna do. <laugh> but, you know, I don't, I don't know that, like, I think that just a turnoff to some people and that's, for me, I can afford the $40. Speaker 0 00:15:17 It's not a matter of whether or not I have $40. There is a portion of every church. If you're reaching people that things are really tight or they're in debt, or they're doing financial peace university and they right. They they're doing all the baby steps and they don't want to be getting into debt, or it's not something that's in their budget. Well, when you have a fee for some kind of a one off event like this, you need to realize that it will affect the number of people that are showing up to that there. So, yeah. That's why, if it's ever possible, I want to air on the side of not charging. Uh, now there is one exception to this for me, uh, is that I think it's important to charge something, uh, even if it's not to cover the cost, but something for educational type events. Speaker 0 00:16:01 Sure. Or, um, just, you know, maybe you're doing a, uh, a marriage seminar and you're having an overnight and, uh, people are going out to it and you brought in some speakers for it. You maybe could just budget into your church budget, but I think it's important to charge something for it because it, then there's some value and there's some skin in the game for people. Yeah. When they come to thinking about the actual event itself. So, um, if I'm doing, going to a marriage event, uh, and it's, uh, you know, one night on a Friday and then Saturday, all day, uh, and then we go home and sleep. If I didn't pay anything, it's just something our church is doing. I don't have the same need to be there on Saturday morning if I'm tired. Yeah. Or we didn't sleep good the night before. But if I put in even a small amount, even if it was $40 or something like that for my wife and I I'm thinking I paid for it, I have the materials. Yeah. I feel like I need to be there at this event because I've already invested in it. So there is a case to be made where it'll help you reach more people if you charge something. But I just, it's one of those things we have to wrestle with a little bit. Speaker 4 00:17:05 It is, it's a, it's, it's a balancing act. Right. And it's a, it's good to ask those questions and that, that's a good segue to the next one. Next question here, are there other ways to cover the costs? Yeah. So, you know, thinking through, okay. If we, if we don't want to charge for this event or have to charge a higher amount, what can we do? Um, there's a, there's several things. Could you ask for donations can, um, you know, this could be, you know, for food decor, giveaways, whatever, um, you know, and, and not just not monetary donations always. Um, but you know, can there be some things that people bring that would cover? Um, yeah. Speaker 0 00:17:41 I've seen churches do that a lot. Like I see that, you know, well, um, what, I've been a part of a church where the church would cook the main course. Yeah. It was like barbecue chicken or something like that. Yeah. And they'd ask people to bring sides, you know, they'd put all the sides there. So it's a little donation kinda like that they make to cover and makes the event free. Yeah. So it's a, it's a modified potluck. I'm, I'm actually, this is a whole nother episode. Maybe we could do one on, should churches do potlucks. Uh, cause I'm on the probably not camp. Uh, so yeah. Yeah. Anyway, depends on the church I guess, but that's another, a whole other conversation. So yeah. I've seen that ask for donations one be good. Speaker 4 00:18:16 Yeah. It could be also charging for specific items. Um, so you know that, you know, again, that's tricky, right. You think through it, um, we were joking earlier when we were talking about this point about, okay, you know, the water's free, but if you want the root beer $2 or whatever, I don't know. I don't know if you wanna do that, you know, but it could be, you know, if there's specific like, uh, event, if you have some games or some different things that, you know, cost some money to set up and they're compelling enough, maybe if it's someone who wants to do that makes me think of the carnival. Right. When you take your kid to the carnival, you gotta pay extra to try to win the stuffed animal by throwing the darts at the balloons or whatever. I don't know. <laugh> yeah. But, uh, you know, questions a question for depending upon what you're doing. Speaker 0 00:19:02 Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, so I'll get a couple of 'em. So, um, like doing a fundraiser, I think that's an idea. Um, I, in general am not a fan of this one. I think churches, I don't see a lot of biblical reference to doing fundraisers or bake sales or selling things. Uh, so in general, I'm not a huge fan of that, but some churches have seen success, um, especially when it comes to like missions trips and those kinds of things, helping to raise money for those kinds. If you wanna call that an event, uh, doing that kind of stuff, uh, could happen. Uh, I don't like this one either, but some churches do give sponsorships and still add space. Uh, so you know, the, uh, the men's night brought to you by reach, right. Or something like that, you know, have a big sign up there. Uh, I am all four businesses doing these kinds of things. And, uh, I know that, uh, we have that Speaker 4 00:19:49 Reach, right. I, I asked you to do that for my son's select baseball team. That's true. So that was for baseball Speaker 0 00:19:56 We did for baseball. But I think that I don't see that as a biblical example, either of doing sponsorships or selling ad space in the temple. Yeah. They didn't really, I think that's kind of in the kick, the tables over territory, probably when you get into that Speaker 4 00:20:09 Web Speaker 0 00:20:10 <laugh> to each their own. So, uh, you can, uh, generate money through sales. Another one that's kind of iffy there. I will say that there could be a case for this, if it's a, you know, merch that you're selling there, um, for the event or something to that effect, I think there could be something valuable for people there. Um, I don't know. Do you ever buy, do you have church merch that you've purchased at your church before? Speaker 4 00:20:32 Not much me personally, but it makes me think of the, we do, we do a man night, but we do a much bigger women's conference called radiance surprised Speaker 0 00:20:40 We Speaker 4 00:20:40 Have, of course, uh, and people should watch this, this, or listen to this podcast after the father's day one or, or together, because a lot of this stuff coincides, but, uh, but yes, big women's event now there there's shirts, there's all sorts of the there's jewelry. There's maybe local ladies selling earrings and all of that stuff. Speaker 0 00:21:01 Does your wife, wife have anything from that? Speaker 4 00:21:03 No. No. From my wife wife's, uh, my, my wife's not as into that type of thing. No, she likes to shop and all of that, but you know what I mean? So she's not, she's not high maintenance, thankfully. So Speaker 0 00:21:15 Anyway, yeah. I don't wanna get you any, either trouble. We digres this podcast maybe digs this out. We'll see. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, I think that this is another idea. We're just trying to give ideas out there. You can kind of weigh the yeah. Weigh the value of them. I'll get the last one here is take up an offering. Yeah. Um, this one, I, I don't have a huge problem with, if you have some kind of an event, maybe it was a man night or a ladies' night at your church and you pass the plate around or you have a box in the back and say, Hey, if you could, uh, you know, consider giving something I know at our men's breakfast, uh, we would generally just try to do something to cover the cost of food. Uh, so we'd have guys slip five bucks in and, uh, you know, they'd cover the price of their bacon and eggs and those kinds of things, although the price of bacon has gone up considerably nowadays. Speaker 0 00:21:59 So that's another story there, but, uh, I think that you could also take up an offering to cover it, but I guess what it all comes down to is the question is, is it the right thing to do, uh, is charging for church events? The, is it what Jesus would do? Is it something that we should be doing here? Yeah. Um, I don't know. I'll let you kind of tell us in a second where you come down on it. My thought is whenever possible. No, uh, I would, I think that that question of will it affect the number of people that I can reach. That is the biggest question that we should be answering. So when, whenever it's possible to not charge for an event, uh, I think I am in the camp that I would love to find a way to budget for it. Speaker 0 00:22:41 Yeah. To plan for it. Uh, if we actually think it adds value, then it's worth it for it to be in our church budget there. So yeah, I'm in the camp where we fight to not do those kinds of things. Yeah. Unless we really have to. And even when we have to trying to subsidize it, I'll also say this for those events that we have to charge to charge for, whether it be a big church camp, uh, or a vacation Bible school, remembering if there's people in our church or in our community that maybe even aren't a part of our church that would love to do it, but could not afford to do it. There's, there's no doubt that an $800 camp is out of reach for lots and lots of people in every single community in our country. Right. Or in our world. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:23:22 That's a huge, uh, huge expense there. And so yeah, you need to be sensitive to those ideas. And I would always encourage churches to find ways to make price, not the reason, right. Someone doesn't go because there's no doubt in my mind that kids' lives are changed at camp. And so even if we could find a way for them to go for a much lower rate, if not free, you wanna find ways to do that. You wanna invite people in your church, Hey, will you sponsor one kid who isn't able to go because they can't afford it? You know, even though you don't have any kids going, will you contribute to something like this? So, uh, I come down again on the side of let's fight to not charge for church events unless we have to. And even when we have to, let's find ways that money is never the reason why someone doesn't get involved or doesn't go to an event. Speaker 4 00:24:08 Yeah. And I would agree with you on that. Um, you know, try to not, and, and, and if it's at all possible at the same time, I think there's a lot of things. Well, one thing I'll say based on what you said there too, which I'm glad you brought up was a good point, is that if there's a, we, I know at our church again, that that does have a lot of events that, that we charge for. I know that we always have, whether it's, you know, sponsoring a kid for, for, you know, summer camp or, um, you know, whatever it would be, we definitely make that front face or someone needs to kind of ask for some financial assistance. I know that's never a fun thing for probably anyone to have to do. Right. Um, but we always try to have those options, uh, there available, but I would agree if, if it's something we don't have to charge for, we can find other ways to, to fund it. Speaker 4 00:24:55 Then that's, that's the way to go. But I also would say that, I think it also depends on the kind of church you are. And I don't think you have to be a large church or a mega size church to be an event based church or church that wants to provide impactful events and things for people to do. I think it's just asking all of these questions. I think sometimes it can personally, I, I have of the opinion. Sometimes it can be justified sometimes it's maybe not something that's good to do as far as charging for an event, but I agree always try to find a way to not have to do those things would probably be the best approach. Speaker 0 00:25:30 Yeah, no. Good. Um, do you guys do sponsorships for sloppy Joe's at your church? Like if can I, if someone can't afford a Joe, can I give, so someone can get a Speaker 4 00:25:39 Sloppy Joe there I'd be happy to sponsor for like double sloppy Joe's okay. So as long as you double it up, I'll sponsor maybe 20 of those. So, but, uh, yeah, Speaker 0 00:25:50 That's it so Speaker 4 00:25:50 Well, Speaker 0 00:25:51 Good. Well, we'll leave it at that for this week. Uh, thank you guys so much. I hope this has been helpful for you, uh, in kind of thinking through this question. I know that I've wondered it. I'm sure lots of our audience have kind of wondered how do we figure this stuff out here? This is just some advice that we have. If you have any other ideas on, or maybe you think we're dead wrong on some of this. Sure. Let us know in the comments down below, that would mean a lot to us. We'd love to kind of have a discussion and kind of further the community in that way. Um, also, if this has been helpful to you, if you'd hit the like button subscribe, uh, give us a comment, give us a thumbs up. Uh, just thank you guys so much for being a part of our rewrite family. When you do those things, it really does help us get the word out there about this show. So thank you guys so much. We hope to catch you next week. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way. Looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, write studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week. Speaker 2 00:27:02 Ready to get ready to get.