Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Well, preaching is an art form, and in my experience, some pastors are better than others at it, but some of the best pastors avoid some very serious mistakes when it comes to their sermons. In this conversation, we're gonna unpack five of the biggest preaching mistakes that we see out there. Let's do this. You are listening to The Reach right podcast, the show dedicated to helping your church reach more people and grow. Well, hey guys. I'm Thomas.
Speaker 2 00:00:28 And I'm Ian.
Speaker 0 00:00:29 And today we are talking about five preaching mistakes that Wise pastors will avoid. Uh, thanks for being a part of our reach Right. Podcast. Uh, yeah, we put content out like this every single week. Uh, so if you're new here, it would mean a lot to us if you would hit that subscribe button, if you're interested in this kind of contact. Yeah. But I, I think it'll be a good conversation for us today because, um, yeah, I think when we were prepping for this a little bit, we, we both were excited about this, Ian, cuz I think we have some stories to, to tell and some, uh, we, we've experienced, I've experienced all five of these mistakes here before. I
Speaker 2 00:01:04 I have too. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:01:05 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:01:06 Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:01:06 You and I have been That should
Speaker 2 00:01:08 Be fun.
Speaker 0 00:01:08 You and I have been in ministry, uh, both together. Uh, we, yeah. Um, I know you and I planted a church together for the audience that doesn't know that back in 2007. And so we've been, uh, buddies for a long time and, uh, also, um, have been, uh, at church services that we've run together and we've gone to church services together. Uh, that, uh, maybe some of those stories will come up that we've experienced some of these, uh, these things. We won't name any names, we won't, uh, kind of throw anybody under the bus. No, no. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I, I just think that this is gonna be useful, that, uh, just hearing some of these things, maybe you can relate to some of them. And I think also, uh, just hearing someone articulate them I think might give us a little kick in the pants to, to stop doing some of these things here. So Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully anything to say before we kick off?
Speaker 2 00:01:54 No. And, and, you know, we're all for, you know, it's funny as we get into this, you know, uh, we're not perfect pastors. We don't preach perfectly. Yeah. You've of course preached a lot more than me. Um, but you're right. We've had experience, we've, uh, not only have had personal experience with making these mistakes our ourselves, right? Yeah. But, uh, but also, you know, seeing this inaction from other pastors and seeing a lot of data out there too, this doesn't just come from, uh, our opinion on it. So, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:02:22 But, uh, I, I've, I've made a, at least four of these, maybe all five of them, I've made the mistakes, <laugh>. So I don't come at this from a position of, uh, being high and mighty or being perfect in this area at all. And I've preached hundreds of sermons, and this is, uh, these are common mistakes. So, uh, first one is one that I probably have made the most is not citing sources. And I'm talking specifically about, uh, when you quote people, when you quote scripture or when you quote studies those three areas, I find that, um, I have made that mistake. And there was a time where you could get away with this. I think when I got into ministry, it was 20 years ago now, and people weren't likely to fact check you or, uh, check and see if, uh, you're actually just making up that study.
Speaker 0 00:03:09 Uh, so it's in, it's important now though, because people, a lot of them are probably sitting on their phones and might actually live fact check you. Right, right. On some of the things that you might be saying there. So just in general though, I think there's, I, I have, um, made this mistake, and usually it's from a lack of preparation, uh, that I, I, maybe I think of it on the fly or I never get around to checking this, but I know it says it somewhere. So I might say things like, here's some indicators, like things like the Bible says, if you ever say, the Bible says that means you probably don't know where it says it in the Bible, <laugh>, uh, it would be better that you would say, you know, uh, Ephesians two 12 says, right. Or, yes, Paul tells us in Ephesians that, you know, you could say those kinds of things.
Speaker 0 00:03:55 So citing your sources that way. Um, if it's a quote from someone, this is a mistake that I see a lot, where you have a really great quote that you heard, and really you should attribute that to somebody else. And it'll actually, I I think sometimes pastors fear that people won't think that they're that smart or that they're stealing from other people if they cite a source. But I just think it's actually something that people wanna know. Uh, if you read that from Yeah. A book by Tim Keller. Tell people that, right. Tim Keller wrote this. And give credit where credit is due in those areas. So yeah, that's a few of my thoughts on that. Anything to add on that, Ian?
Speaker 2 00:04:27 Yeah. Or a statistic. Statistics are powerful, obviously. And so the source of those is good cuz it adds validity, you know, cuz I think a lot of people, um, understand that a lot of stats that are thrown out there are not accurate. You know, people could just say 90% of these people do this. But, uh, so that's a thing. I actually heard a staff
Speaker 0 00:04:45 Recently that 90% of all stats are made up on the fly. Isn't that
Speaker 2 00:04:48 Crazy? That's right. That's right. That saying's been out there for sure. And, uh, and I think too, I, the last thing I would say to this too is that we know it's easy to pastors know, the most of them know the Bible very well, I would say, and or should. And sometimes it's easier for us to know a scripture. I know so many scriptures that I, I, I'm, I'm saying the verse, you know, accurately, but I don't remember that it was first John, you know, blah, blah, blah. Right. So I think that, uh, that, you know, it's easy and it, it's an easy temptation to, you know, what the Bible says, but to sort of leave off that, because you know it, it's in there. So, but it's important. It's definitely
Speaker 0 00:05:29 Important. Yeah. It's preparation though. I think for the most part it's like if, if you, um, I, I have been in that situation when I'm preaching and like something, and it could be the Holy Spirit is speaking some kind of a verse to me and say, this would be a good thing to, to share in this time, especially when I'm doing maybe a ministry time. Um, yeah. But I just think it's a matter of preparation and then just a commitment to the scripture that you can say where it says it, or at a minimum say, you know, who says it in scripture? Um, if it's from Jesus, then say, Jesus tells us us. Or if it's from Paul, or you know, if whoever it would be, uh, yeah, David says in the Psalms or whatever it would be. Right. So, um, yeah, thinking about it, just identifying it would be important.
Speaker 2 00:06:06 This next one's a good one. Preaching too long. Yes. I mean, how many pastors? And we know that that's a temptation. We know pastors are passionate and have a, there's so much to say about certain topics or, or scriptures or if you're expository a book in the Bible, you can, I mean, expound upon it so deeply. But as we know, even, you know, in recent years and now leading up to now, people's attention span is even shorter and they're more impatient than ever before. Um, and also I think it's just, it's important to know that, you know, really it's about the message and, and, and instead of, and how potent that message is, instead of really how long it is. And my pastor is guilty of the, i I love my pastor and, uh, as we've shared on this podcast before, I'm very large church that is known for great preaching.
Speaker 2 00:06:55 Uh, and our pastors known nationally throughout, you know, ark associated Association of related Churches. And sometimes he admits that, okay, yeah, he's going too long. And he'll even look up at the, the clock and be like, okay, here we go. And, and, uh, you know, or have the, the, the band come out and start the ending and the music. And so, cuz he knows he is going overtime. But I also am thinking, like you said, we have some stories about this. You and I got, we were a victim of it when, when we were starting the church plant. You mentioned back in Yeah. 2007. You know, one of our goals was to go around to local churches and connect and just, just see what other kind of churches were doing. And, and we, uh, we were held captive one Sunday. Weren't we
Speaker 0 00:07:36 <laugh> we were, I'll let you tell the story of that. That was, that
Speaker 2 00:07:39 Was the story. We great church. Again, we're not naming any names, but, uh, um, and this church is still around. I, it's here locally where I am. I drive by it, you know, at least once a week, um, in my travels. But, uh, yeah, we, we went to this church and, and, uh, and we sat there and I think we knew we were in for, for it bef you know, when it was about an hour before the preaching actually even started. Yeah. Uh, we knew we were in for it. So this church, and again, we're all for longer war, not saying you have to do two worship songs and get out or anything like that, or that people can't share. But we had, they had people getting up there and, um, sharing testimonies, the mm-hmm. <affirmative> war went, uh, extended. The pastor himself was leading this worship as well, uh, and, uh, and was definitely taking his time. And so, and then when the message happened that also extended, we, I guess our wi our wives were starting to text us so that we were missing lunch and afternoon. I remember that plan. So it kind of stuck in there. So <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:08:43 Yeah. So yeah, I, I remember that very well, and I think everybody kind of has an experience with that. I've been to a church once where, um, the service goes long and they literally like lock the doors when they get to the end of it and kind of the alter call portion and those things there. And I, um, I had a friend of mine once who had to go to the bathroom and like, it was becoming an emergency and the ushers told her, no, like, you cannot do that if you're not. So they just made her wait with her legs crossed, basically for a few extra minutes there while they finished that up. But yeah, we've all been there. Um, I, I want to take a second to just kind of take a stab at, um, at getting some numbers out there of how long messages should be.
Speaker 0 00:09:27 Um, I, I think, so my number is 30 minutes. Um, that's when I preach, uh, that's what I aim for. Um, you know, when I say that, like that is kind of the, um, I'd like to say that it averages 30 minutes. That's not the case though. But I think that I shoot for 30 minutes. Typically it goes 30 to 35. Occasionally I will preach upper thirties, like up to 40 maybe, uh, when I'll preach a sermon. And I think that's too long. So I, I want to avoid that. And I would say that a lot of times we have this misunderstanding that a really good pastor will be able to take a topic and talk about it for an hour if they're really good. Really that's a sign of a poor communicator in my eyes that really being able to hone your message and get it down to like having the same impact in 30 minutes will almost always be a more valuable use of everybody's time and a better sermon if you could hone it down to 30 minutes.
Speaker 0 00:10:27 So, um, yeah. Yeah, I say that 30 minutes is kind, that's my target on everything. I just preached this last weekend, I think it was 32 minutes, uh, when I preached my last sermon here. So it's something that you, it really is important to try and, uh, get down to, to those kinds of numbers just because I think w this problem of waning attention spans is not going away. Right? So we, it, it used to be that yeah, sermons were an hour long and that's just kind of what it was. And, uh, but now our attention spans are shorter and shorter. I find that when I'm in a sermon, I have a hard time paying attention as it goes past 30, 35 minutes, I start to wonder about what's for lunch. And that's just how I'm it. It's a sad thing, but that's kind of just how I've become wired now.
Speaker 0 00:11:09 So, yep. Um, that's our recommendation for you Now. Let us know in the comments if you have a different feeling on this, I'd love to hear what you think on this. Um, it is something that, um, is people get passionate about. Uh, if you're from a church that preaches less than that, uh, maybe you have 20 minute sermons or something. I'd love to hear about that. My guess is that more people will adamantly support longer sermons. Uh, but, you know, we'd love to hear about what your thoughts are on that. Yeah, yeah. That's good. That's a good point. Yeah. Next one is, uh, avoid preaching at specific people. Um, this is the one that I'm, I can't remember a time that I've done this. I may have, but this is that story that you hear that you've heard of some kind of an issue happening within your church, right?
Speaker 0 00:11:52 Yeah. And so you decide, Hey, I'm going to preach a message so that Joe knows all of the, that I know the things that he's doing and I'm gonna rebuke him. Uh, so he hears from the word what's wrong with the way that he's been living, like, so that kind of a message there. And it's hard to not do that. Yeah. Because you, you pick up things in ministry that, you know, you're, you hear that this is happening or these things are going on in your small groups or whatever it would be. Uh, and you want to nip it in the bud. And as you're preparing your message, your mind will obviously go to, Hey, you know, who really needs to hear? This is old Joe who keeps sending this way, and he needs to hear exactly what the, what the Bible tells us about this.
Speaker 0 00:12:35 Yeah. And so we kind of go there in our preparation, but you need to do everything you can to avoid that way of thinking, because yeah, I, it's probably not healthy for your church, and chances are, if you know what you're talking about, then Joe knows what you're talking about. And a lot of people close to Joe will know what you're talking about. And yeah, it's probably not the place for that. If you do feel that maybe as you're preparing your message, you realize, Hey, Joe really needs to hear this. I think that maybe is signal from the Holy Spirit that you need to pick up the phone and call Joe before the sermon, right. And say, Hey, Joe, can I talk to you about something this has been weighing on my heart and I need to address something with you. Uh, so yeah. Um, that's probably what a healthy pastor would do in that situation. But anything to add there, Ian?
Speaker 2 00:13:16 Uh, yeah, I totally agree with you and I think something I'll add is, is that it, it can make it awkward too for new visitors. Um Oh yeah. You know, if you think about that or just, just people that, um, even ex even longstanding church members, it can make it awkward. But I think if we, we always wanna, I think it, you should put first time visitors first in a way, not to say you're crafting your whole message around a first time guest, but you gotta think of them. Of course, you want them to be able to apply the, the message and get closer to the Lord and what he's doing at your local church. But, uh, uh, I remember being in a, a part of a particular message. I was not a member at this church. I was there for a church conference, but there was, there happened to be a lot of preaching happening there.
Speaker 2 00:13:57 And in this, there's this particular message, there's maybe only about 40 to 50 people in the pastor. He, he starts to, he did not, he didn't say the name, but he was starting to call out and looking in the direction of a, a certain section of the church, someone who was having an affair. And, and of course this was a spirit filled church, and he was saying, the Lord is telling me right now you're over here and you know who you are, you're having, you're doing this and so on. And with this person, everyone just starts looking around. And it was very awkward. And I, again, far be it for me. I know, uh, you know, uh, we all want to be led by the spirit and we don't, we, uh, we, we encourage that for every pastor, but, uh, it did seem a little outta left field. Uh, so yeah. But, uh, so you, I have, yes. That was another fond memory.
Speaker 0 00:14:45 Yeah. It, it's something I, it reminds me of that one time, um, I think we sh this like this, it was a clip that turned into a meme where the guy says there's five witches that have been in our church. Remember that, that clip there. Yes. So he kind of preaches directly at said witches
Speaker 2 00:15:00 In this church
Speaker 0 00:15:01 Were
Speaker 2 00:15:02 There. And he did say that they were in the service there. They
Speaker 0 00:15:04 Were right there before him. So yeah, avoid that. I just think it's something I, I get my, my recommendation is if you're feeling that in your spirit as you're preparing, take that as the Holy Spirit calling you to reach out to that person Yeah. Individually and privately to address that situation. Yeah. So that's it. There are a few situations where if that doesn't work, as we know in scripture, it talks us to about going to one person and then bringing another person with you, and then Yeah. Oh yeah. If they continue to reject Right. Your, uh, your counsel and words into their life, you need to bring them, uh, bring this before the entire church and speak to it. So that is a very rare situation where I think that should happen on a Sunday morning during a sermon. Um, but so just avoid that. That's our recommendation there, <laugh>. That's it.
Speaker 2 00:15:50 Good. This next one here, uh, is avoiding the hard topics, you know? Yeah. You and I have talked about this a lot, and one thing I've always appreciated when, uh, you and I were doing ministry together and you never, uh, back down from preaching about tithing, I think that's the one hard, or what might be considered a hard topic, you know, or in the area of giving and all of that. And, and, uh, and that, and there's many other ones, but I think that, uh, you know, pastors shouldn't be fearful about that. Or I think the fear could be losing membership or, um, you know, just, you know, diminishing your attendance numbers. But let's face it, the Bible's full of hard topics that Jesus addressed and that need to be addressed. And, and, uh, I, I actually will, uh, just as a personal story and, and testimony is when I was being saved and new to the faith, one of the first messages I heard that completely brought me closer to God was one on tithing. Mm. Uh, and, uh, and being new to the faith and zealous, I, I trusted God in that and saw, uh, immense blessing. And so I loved that message. Yeah. And I was someone who was a new believer and new at this church when I heard it. So, uh, yeah. I can personally attest that, uh, I've benefited from pastors preaching. And again, that's one example of the tie. There's a lot of course, hard topics in our culture and society today,
Speaker 0 00:17:08 <laugh>. Yeah. So here's, here's what my strategy on this is, is that you, you want to be careful to not avoid them. And when I'm talking about hard topics, it's gonna be mostly Yes. So giving is kind of like a, a, a theological hard topic, I guess. Some people don't like that. And then things like, you know, depending on, you know, what the Bible says about speaking in tongues, whether you're a church that does that or not, you know, those are some hard topics. And what do we do about, uh, women in ministry? That's a hard topic for a lot of churches, things that bring controversy. And then you have things that are outside pressures, I'd say, on the church. So, uh, homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion. Yes. Um, death penalty issues, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> race, uh, and what we do about some of those kinds of things, things that our culture is talking about and what we do with them.
Speaker 0 00:17:57 So I think that we ha there has to be a balance with this, right? So there are some churches that I have seen, and this is probably more rare, I think the problem is for most pastors is avoiding these topics, but there are a few that love the topic so much that that's all they talk about. Right. So they'll, um, you know, it, I think that, you know, maybe there were churches that over emphasized, um, things during the George Floyd situation a couple of years ago. Yeah. Maybe they, they just, everything came back to race and it probably shouldn't be that way. Right. So I personally, my strategy on this, and this isn't gonna be for every church, but this is why I love expository teaching so much, is that when you go through a book of the Bible and you do it verse by verse, and you go through those topics, eventually everything is uncovered.
Speaker 0 00:18:46 Yeah. Uh, and you don't put more emphasis on any topic than scripture demands that we put on it. So there are some people who just love to talk about one particular hobby, horse kind of an issue. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And when you expository, when you teach in an expository manner going through books of the Bible, it doesn't, you can't do that because you can't, it, the Bible doesn't address the issue of abortion over and over and over again. Um, but it does address it. So it's something that you will come up. So I loved teaching through like, uh, we, we taught through it. My last church, the book of First Corinthians mm-hmm. <affirmative> and first Corinthians is, if you aren't aware, it's just a total list of this. The name of the series we called it is Following Jesus in a Jacked Up church is what it was.
Speaker 0 00:19:31 How do you do this? Because it was so full of all kinds of problems. There was a guy who was sleeping with his mom. There were issues of, uh, death and what we should do with the death penalty and talking about when life begins and abortion. And we talked about all these kinds of issues in it, but it was only as much as scripture talked about it. So, um, I think that's the, the right way to go about it. But, uh, there are things that your church needs to hear from you on. So, uh, you should have spoken on, uh, L G B T, uh, Q issues at some point recently with all of the things that are happening. People are looking at what's happening right now. Yeah. With, uh, with, with Bud Light and some of the Yeah. Uh, the, the issues happening there and they Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:20:13 Um, I actually, I remember I didn't say much regrettably about, uh, L G B T issues in the church when the decision came down from the Supreme Court to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide here in the United States. Yeah. And someone actually left my church over it because I, they expected me to say something about it. And, um, I, I didn't, we, we mentioned it in passing, but didn't do a deep dive into it when it was something now Yeah. I don't agree with them leaving our church over something like that. Sure. I'm not saying that was wise, but I I, in, in considering it, I probably was trying to avoid that kind of a topic. Yeah. I pastored in a very, uh, liberal city and a lot of my, uh, my members would've, uh, had lots of questions and it would've probably led other people to leave if I had addressed it directly at that time. So it was something I was careful of, and that's one of those mistakes that I have made before. So my encouragement to you pastors teach through books of the Bible, don't avoid it when the Bible talks about it. Uh, and when someone asks, Hey, why did you talk about that? You can say, because the Bible talks about it. So there you, that's why we do that. There. There you go.
Speaker 2 00:21:17 Yeah. Well, good. Last but not least, you got this one. Last
Speaker 0 00:21:19 One is not using the stories, this is the, uh, key to effective communication. Uh, is this method of, uh, telling stories and making points. Yeah. I think if you were to boil down my preaching method, and I think all of the great community communicators out there, it's tell a story. Make a point. Yeah. Tell a story, make a point. Jesus told a parable, made a point, told a parable, made a point. So, um, I think this is something that if you, if you want to have dry sermons, and I think sometimes there's a temptation with us that we wanna make it not all about ourselves or not about stories, but about scripture. I think that for the most part, most sermons that I hear, they are too heavy on the points and not heavy enough on the stories. Yeah, I agree. I think if you are, um, if you look at Jesus's, like when we read his parables, he spends more time setting up and telling the story than he does summing up the point. A lot of times the story will be 10 verses and the point will be one. Yeah. And so I think that might be a little bit heavy for a sermon, but I think if you're two third story in illustration and one third, what is the spiritual point of this and what do I do now? I think that's probably about a good ratio to be targeting there. So, um, just as kind of a general guideline, that's the way I think of it.
Speaker 2 00:22:42 I agree. And not much Dad. I would just say one of the things I appreciate about stories during a message is they do keep my attention, you know? Mm. Again, we've talked about attention span and going too long, and, uh, we're about to wrap up this podcast. Haha. But at the same time, um, I find when I start to drift in my attention wanes that, uh, that a story re-engages me. Yes, it does. Pulls me back in. So I appreciate that about those too.
Speaker 0 00:23:07 Yeah. Jesus knew that. And I think it's something that we can all grow. And for the most part, if you're wondering if you, I need to apply this, chances are you do, and you need to do more stories as opposed to fewer were. Yep. Uh, so that's it. Anyway. I hope that's been helpful for you. Um, here's what I'd love for you to do. If you have a pet peeve when it comes to preaching or something you don't like, uh, or something that you used to do that you've corrected, we'd love to hear about that in the comments. Let us know. Um, other things. This is, uh, we want this to be helpful to other pastors out there. Yeah. So let's share the, the wisdom and the knowledge on that stuff. Let us know in the comments, like, subscribe, do all those things. Thanks for being a part of the Retried family, and we'll catch you next week.
Speaker 2 00:23:46 See you.
