Speaker 0 00:00:00 In today's episode, we go through six tips to help you preach sermons without notes, preaching, without notes can be really scary, but the advantages are huge. We hope this conversation helps you reach more people and grow. This is the reach right podcast.
Speaker 1 00:00:25 You are listening to the read-write podcast. The show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way. Oh shit. By me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help you your church see more visitors and grow.
Speaker 0 00:00:52 Hey guys, welcome to the retrial podcast. Episode number 55. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost Ian
Speaker 2 00:01:02 Hyatt. What's up Thomas or I should say Aloha.
Speaker 0 00:01:04 Lo hi. Yeah, just back from seeing us here in Hawaii, we had a great time and he looks a little Tanner, right? Let us know in the comments audience, if Ian looks Tanner to you or not, but I am, I am a little bit,
Speaker 2 00:01:19 Even if people don't realize it, but, uh, yeah, a little jet lag to today, but we're the show must go on.
Speaker 0 00:01:24 That's it exactly right. We have a good topic today, too. We're going to be talking about six tips to help you preach sermons without notes. This is something that I hear from a lot of pastors that is a goal of theirs is to move away from doing notes and having notes and everything that they do. Uh, but, uh, I talked to a lot more guys that want to do that, but are a little bit intimidated or afraid, or it's hard to do it. Uh, and I just want to acknowledge that first of all, it is a, it's quite an endeavor to make that leap to going without notes. I'm, I've pastored as our audience probably knows I've pastored for 15 years and, uh, preached weekend and week out. And, um, I was something that I became less and less note dependent. Uh, we were never a church that had a, um, a, uh, a stage facing screen. So I couldn't like just go off of the, the scriptures that are on there or anything, but, you know, so I had notes usually for scriptures, but that was about it usually when I would preach. So, but it took a long time and I guess some work to get there. Uh, but, um, I don't know. I hear a lot of guys, have you heard this, that people are just kind of a desire to preach at least less reliant on notes, if not, no notes at all, and that's something you hear. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:02:39 I hear that. And you know, again, even though we, I consult with pastors mostly on, on technology and marketing and all of those things, but, uh, but yeah, it comes up all the time. Cause we, we talk about how to get sermons online effectively, uh, ask pastors about their preaching style and their approach because that's relevant for how we help them online and with websites stuff. So, yeah, absolutely. And, uh, and, and as you know, and many others maybe don't know, I, I did pastor as well. And, uh, do I have not preached as much as you and I was not an every Sunday pastor or almost every Sunday because it was not a senior pastor. I still, um, definitely pre I've preached more than I can count on both hands. So, uh, so I've had a little bit of experience with it. So yeah,
Speaker 0 00:03:25 I guess for a second, just to start off before we get into the tips, I guess, what is the reason for this? Would you say I have a couple of ideas, but I guess I'll just lead out that I feel like the having, without having notes up there, it just makes you able to engage with your audience better, like having that kind of a connection that you're not reading something from them. And now I, I'm not necessarily against reading like it, it's Charles Spurgeon and famously read all of his messages, word for word, and that's just the way that they did things, but I feel like there's just a better way to connect. And I guess the example I use, and I actually I'll say this too, is that I think that there's some value even in your worship team, maybe getting to a place where they are not using their music in front of them or chord charts or those things.
Speaker 0 00:04:12 I've seen a lot of worship teams move away from that. And I know that's a huge undertaking too. Uh, but if you think about it, like you go to your favorite concert, I know you're a Metallica fan. Right. And have you seen them in concert before? Oh yeah, for sure. So I bet you that Lars on the drums and, uh, you know, uh, the whole, the whole crew, I bet they're, they don't have notes in front of them, right? They're not like, like he's not up there looking at his words and kind of then singing it out. Right. It's
Speaker 2 00:04:40 Something as much as their tickets cost, I would be a little disappointed if
Speaker 0 00:04:44 They couldn't get it around to memorizing it. I know it's different when you're relying on volunteers and having an expectation of that. But as the leaders of churches, I think if we're pastors or we're up, we're given that privilege of bringing the word of God. I think that it, again, it's not a sin, there's nothing wrong with using notes, but I think if our goal is to engage with people, uh, and teach the word and if we can even be incrementally better, uh, at, uh, at doing that, if we can be incrementally better at sharing and engaging with people, by making a little change like this, it might be something worth pursuing. So what do you have to add to that? Yeah. To,
Speaker 2 00:05:23 To add to that. I think that's good. And I think to add to that, it's it, it makes the pasture come off as more natural, I think, uh, more conversational, um, uh, more relatable. And I think that whenever I hear feedback from people about like my pastor's messages, they really say, I really felt like he helped me know how to apply it to myself. And, uh, it was, or I hear things like down to earth, uh, you know, or just, uh, re more practical all of those things. So I think it leads into some of that, um, you know, as well.
Speaker 0 00:05:55 Yeah, absolutely. No. So I think it's something that's a good endeavor that, uh, if it's something you're interested in, it might be something to pursue. And that's why we have these tips to help you, uh, get to that place. It may be something that helps you. So, uh, I'll start off, I guess the first tip is know your sermon, don't memorize your sermon. Uh, so that's number one. And what we mean by this is that like, it's, it's one thing to, to memorize a speech, uh, and that would be so hard to do weekend and week out, uh, to get up there and to have word for word, speech memorize, kind of like your, uh, back what you did. Maybe if you were in a speech club in high school, or you were reciting a poem, if you had to recite thousands of words in a sermon, oh my goodness.
Speaker 0 00:06:36 That would be next to impossible to do that weekend and week out with a, with a sermon. So what we say with this is it's important that you know, what your sermon actually is and what it's about that you would actually internalize it. I know for me, one way that I did this is I would start early in the week and I would start to try to apply the main point of the sermon throughout my entire week. So, uh, you know, just whatever I was preaching, usually I was kind of preaching at myself, uh, and trying to correct some of the behaviors that I need to correct in my life and trying to internalize it and really live it out for a week. It helps me to deliver a message. So, uh, knowing it is really important. What do you have to add? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:17 Yeah. And I think it's funny, you mentioned that you made me remember that time, that, uh, at the last church you pastored up in Madison, uh, when we were coming to go visit you guys there, you know, you had invited me to preach and I had not preached, maybe it was well over a year or so before that, that since the last time I had preached, or maybe even a little bit longer, um, and I remember I was just like, oh my gosh, I need to memorize this. You know, I need to, well, I was so afraid of like being rusty and having to go back to the notes. I felt like I had to memorize the whole thing. And when I started trying to do that, I realized I was, it was just almost in, well, I say this, if you're someone, if a pastor out there is listening and they memorize the whole thing and they deliver it naturally, then more power to them.
Speaker 2 00:08:04 But I felt like it was making me insane trying that. And, and then it also kind of boxed me into, you know, not being probably as natural or, you know, communicating it more authentically. So I remember just finally saying, okay, I can't, I can't just memorize the whole thing. I just need to know it. Maybe you have to go back to some points a little bit. So it's funny. So I remember that that did not work for me. And I think that, uh, it, in order to memorize, it would have taken a lot more preparation.
Speaker 0 00:08:31 I think having, for me having a system in place to help me with this it's it's good. So the way I usually preach on this is not the, there's not a right or wrong way to do this, but I usually have a few specific points. I've always been kind of one of those three point sermon guys, but you know, sometimes it's four, sometimes it's two, sometimes it's seven, but, uh, I it's easy for me and I can usually memorize three points or five points or something like that. And then I couldn't usually memorize the elements that maybe maybe one sentence on each point that I want to make sure I get it a specific way. So we want to make sure we say something a very specific way, and that's even the way we do this podcast. Right? So we have our main points written down and we actually write a lot of commentary and things that we kind of want to say, but nobody's here reading this. I mean, I have it in front of us here and we could, we could be reading at it, but that's not how we do things. We try to stay at first view,
Speaker 2 00:09:22 The first few podcasts we did. I think I remember
Speaker 0 00:09:24 Looking over it a lot more in my notes, but we've gotten better in the end. You know, we just know a lot of the stuff that we talk about and that's what it comes down to is we, you and I, most of our episodes are not about how to preach better. It's about usually things like how to do a better marketing for churches, web development, Google searches, all those kinds of things. And we talk about these things for hours and hours every single day, we know it. We don't need to memorize the exact words we want to say, because when we're speaking from the heart, as long as we have the points, we can usually get through it. So same thing goes for sermons, know the word, know what you're teaching, internalize it. And usually it's easier to be able to preach that sermon without trying to memorize it. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 00:10:05 But one of the things that is effective to do, and this is, that's a good segue into our next point here is to write it out. Yep. Um, so even though not memorizing the whole thing, writing it out is, is really effective. I I've thought of a couple of things that was, uh, that was funny. I remember I in college, um, I took public speaking and I remember one of the most effective things that I was taught by my professor, there was to write out your speech, you know, write it out totally fully, um, you know, write it out because that helps you memorize it. Um, so I think so we're saying, you know, don't, you don't have to memorize the whole thing, but you do need to remember obviously, uh, the main portion of it. So writing it out kind of helps you in ingrain that, um, you know, into, to, to your mind.
Speaker 2 00:10:52 Um, and so it's funny. I also think of pastors that I sometimes connect with that don't write out their messages. And most of the time, this is the pastor that says, you know, if I ask a pastor, Hey, do you preach in series? Or are you topical? Or do you, if it's a mainline church, are you in the lectionary? But a lot of the Pentecostal like churches, uh, would say, no, you know, really the Lord just gives me a download on Friday and I it's, it's in my it's in my mind. And I just go, just go free flow from the pulpit and unlike, well, I guess more power to you if you do it that way. But I think writing it out is effective, uh, for a number
Speaker 0 00:11:27 Of reasons. Yeah. We love our spirit-filled brothers and yeah, we can do it. Hey, that's, that's a special kind of talent. I'm not there. I'm part of a, a spirit-filled type background. That's where I come from the evangelical movement, but I have never been that guy that can, uh, just hear from the Lord on a, on a Friday or Saturday or Sunday morning. We've all heard of those guys before that, on the way to church, God gives them a word to, and you just have a perfectly written message that comes out. That's not me. So, yeah. So for me, um, well, I don't really take these up there with me. I think that's one of the things I think a lot of guys miss, and I've actually asked questions when I was first hearing about this idea of not preaching with notes. I got into a Twitter conversation with Carrie new Hoff about this, and I was trying to understand like, so do you mean you don't make any notes or you don't just use any notes?
Speaker 0 00:12:20 And I think what I understood it to say, and this is what I do, at least as I write a lot of notes, I still, I had to help me think through everything. I just that's part of the way that I learn is by writing things out and writing the notes is different from using the notes. And so if you're just thinking that I'm going to sit in my room and, and think of the sermon and just try and make it work that way, you know, again, that, that might work for a handful of people. But I think the vast majority of us need to write something out. So maybe it's a manuscript. Maybe you're writing it out word for word exactly what you're going to say, paragraph by paragraph for me, I write a really detailed outline. So, you know, it's just kind of like a free thought exercise more than anything when I do it.
Speaker 0 00:13:03 So usually there's, you know, if we're doing a three-point message, I'll have three points, but then I'll have, oh, somewhere between 20 and 30 sub points under that of just kind of things I want to say or sentences I would use. And that's what I write out. And that's what I usually practice from. And, and, and kind of think through before I get up there without the notes and give the talk. Uh, so that's the way I typically do it. But yeah, I think that that's one of the keys is getting it written down because that's how a lot of us learn. Yeah. Once you tackle the next one. Yep. Next one is focused on stories, focused on stories. I think this is good because what I've found is that it's easy to tell a story, even without trying to memorize it. Stories are things that we have this way that we just kind of connect with our hearts.
Speaker 0 00:13:48 Uh, and the same reason why stories are great in sermons is because it'll help your audience. Remember it, it actually makes it easier for you to remember it. And we all know that Jesus taught in parables. That's something that he was famous for and almost unique with in a way that wasn't a totally common way of teaching back then, but he taught with stories and it was for making his audience remember it. But I know just as a pastor, I don't have to write out an entire story. I can just remember this. Hey, tell the story of the time when my son got lost at the pumpkin patch. And I don't have to write that whole thing out because I remember I connect with the day that it happened, the emotion that I was feeling, the fear we had in our hearts. And that's the illustration that makes sense in the sermon, which I think all sermons should have stories. If we're going to do it like Jesus, you should include stories. Uh, but, um, yeah, so telling stories, I think it just makes it much easier to remember your talk that way. Yeah, I totally
Speaker 2 00:14:47 Agree. And that's something that my pastor is great at now, as you know, we've mentioned before, I'm a part of a very large mega sized church. That, and part of the draw of my church is our pastors preaching. I mean, we were told that all the time. That was one of the things that, uh, you know, one of the many reasons why the Lord led me to my church, um, great preaching, but at the same time, I, he does great storytelling, but also one of the things that I realized is that stories, my past could be a little long-winded right. So there's times where I think if everyone drifts during a message at a certain point, uh, oh, maybe
Speaker 0 00:15:24 There's people that read a manuscript, those that do that, they don't right. I mean, as a, as a listener
Speaker 2 00:15:33 Listener to this sermon, I think everyone always drifts, you might have a rare breed of someone who's just totally tuned in the whole time, but I think everyone drifts a little bit, but I, anytime, uh, getting back to my pastor, being a little long-winded, sometimes I can drift, but anytime he starts telling a story, I'm always focused. Um, I, I really, and, and everyone wants to hear stories. And I think when you think about that unchurched person or made that person that's new to the faith, uh, I, they're going to relate a lot more to stories than just getting biblical verses thrown out of a week. We want Bible verses, and obviously that's a, should be a part of every sermon, but at the same time stories, I think make someone know how to relate and apply it to themselves. So I love storytelling. It's a, win-win you, I, you and I used to pastor together and you were my senior pastor. I, you taught me that. And that was something that you were very good at. And I, and I, and it came kind of natural for me to just because I think that, you know, it's easier to, I think for your message when you say, I mean, if you can tell more stories, that's not something that you have to memorize. It's just something that's already
Speaker 0 00:16:39 There. So there's a triple win in my book. So it's easy to repeat and memorize. It's easy for your people to remember it. Uh, and Jesus did it. So it's something that I think it's a triple win in my book. You can't go wrong. There you go. There you go.
Speaker 2 00:16:52 I'll get the next one here, which is practice on camera with notes. Um, so practice on camera with notes. I'll say that it's, you know, that's
Speaker 3 00:17:01 Might be kind of new. And I think that
Speaker 2 00:17:03 This is something that we're seeing a little bit more of having come out of the pandemic, uh, because during the pandemic D that was something that was new for a lot of pastors. They started recording their messages every week on video. Um, so I think it, this is something that most pastors now, even at smaller churches, uh, you know, th that maybe don't have big production in media, they can do. Um, you know, is that, and, and I, you know, I would say this back in the day when I was preaching more, this wasn't something that I did at something, as a matter of fact, me being in Hawaii, I just saw you preach in person for the first time in a long time. And it was something that you did, and it was even a little bit new for you, but you were saying, Hey, this was interesting, but it helped me, right. It was a little bit
Speaker 0 00:17:49 Weird for me because at the church I was preaching at this last week, we recorded on a Tuesday. We air the message, the recording on a Sunday morning, and then you preach it live on Sunday night. So for me to be watching the message that I just, that I'm about to preach published on social media before I ever preach it. It was a little bit strange for me, but it was actually helpful. It was a good way for me to prep, but I mean, so I'll kind of give my 2 cents on this, because this is something that I've done. Uh, I didn't, well, I've been always a practicer. That's something that I've, I think I, at times in my life, I didn't, and that's a habit that I grew into is making sure you have a practice run, if you can do it, um, in front of people, uh, that is, that's really helpful if you can. I don't know, um, something that
Speaker 2 00:18:38 Might pastor, as a matter of fact, he does that. And that's something that he swears by. Um, and again, he will, at our church, we have several preaching pastors or teaching pastors. So he's, he's not doing it in front of the entire staff, but he's doing it in front of others that I, I don't know everyone that he chooses each on a, on a weekly basis to hear it. It's not definitely the whole staff, but he wants people to critique him and he does it in front of people. And I think that that's kind of a, you know, when I heard that he did it that way, I was like, well, that's, that's kind of interesting. And, uh, you kind of opening yourself up there. And, uh, and, and, and it was funny. He used the example. He said, listen, even though I'm the senior pastor, you better give me feedback. I want to know if I suck. I want to know if I, you know, did something wrong. And, uh, so that's, that's funny. You made me think
Speaker 0 00:19:24 Of that. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody has to be a preaching practicum, the class we used to take in Bible college where you have to preach in front of your professors. And it was the first time I ever gave a message. And I remember just having them rail into me at the end of it. They just told me how, how monotone I was and how boring the sermon was. And it was, it was, it was, it broke my heart, but I don't know, made me better, I guess at some point. So I think that I've been in the habit of practicing, and this might sound weird, but I, I do like a full practice exactly as I planned to deliver it. So when I would tell a joke and I, I would, or something like that in the, in the message, I would kind of do my own little fake chuckle right.
Speaker 0 00:20:06 Then just cause I know everybody's going to be laughing. If I have like a call and response where I'm asking a question of the audience, I'll shout out what the audience might say and then kind of laugh at their response and I'll do fake banter even. So I'm not, I guess that's, that's just how I do things, but doing it on video, I think has been really helpful to be able to practice on camera. Uh, you can actually get a feel for what you're doing and actually that goes pretty well with the next one. We can kind of just jump ahead to that is don't just practice on camera with notes, but the next one is, watch it back before you preach. Uh, so it's a good lead into this. So yeah, this is painful for a lot of people, right? Is, is watching yourself or seeing yourself on camera or if you've never heard yourself preach everybody dislikes the way that they sound audio, because at least man I I've found do because we usually find that our voices in reality are much higher pitched than what we hear in our own heads.
Speaker 0 00:21:06 So when we hear ourselves on, uh, on radio or on audio, it's just like, oh my gosh, is that really how I sound? I don't, I don't sound that way at all to myself there. So, uh, but getting in that habit of watching it back before you get up there to do the talk, it'll really help you to do that. And sometimes it's a couple of times, so I don't know if you're, if you're in the car, uh, it might be helpful if you've recorded yourself before you give your message to put it on and listen to it a time or two and say, Hey, this is it helps you think through here's some things I did well, here's some things I want to improve on, but it helps you really kind of get to that point, not of memorizing it, but really understanding and being familiar with your talk before you get up there to give it. Yeah. I
Speaker 2 00:21:48 Remember doing that very thing too, whenever I was preaching. And uh, and I remember saying, oh my gosh, did I really say that? Or did that, you know, I sounded funny or annoying in some ways. And it helped me to correct that. Uh, so I think that that's the thing too, is that yeah. And, and I think everyone is so audio and video, uh, you know, oriented, if that's the way to put it, we've known this for years. Right. But even more so now with, you know, you, people will, I don't know how many viral videos or just videos I watch daily from my phone and all of that. So, I mean, so I think it's an easy thing to do. Everyone's watching video already. And I think it just, yeah, it helps you to kind of make some corrections before you actually preach to say, okay, wow. I look funny when I say that word, or why did I say that in that tone? Or maybe I just need to eliminate something because now that I've heard it and watched it. Yeah. I don't think that that's a good, so I think it, I think it'll make someone definitely better prepare before they preach. So it goes
Speaker 0 00:22:45 Well with the last one, I'll let you go ahead and bring it home with, uh, with number six,
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Watch it back after you preach. So I think that's, that's because, so after it's too late to make any corrections right after for that particular message. Um, but it's something that if you watch it back after you preach, well, there, you had the finished product, right. You had the whole delivered sermon and then you can kind of really, you know, after you've practiced and done all of these things that we're saying leading up to it, well, then you can see how you delivered it. And I think that even makes you even better for, you know, the next sermon, right. Because then you're going to, you're going to be that much better each following sermon because you're seeing the finished product and you're seeing, okay. Wow. And then you actually, when you, when you said that you chuckle to yourself, uh, but you'll actually hear and see, did, did people really laugh
Speaker 0 00:23:35 At my joke or story? And there you go. Yeah. I think the skin, this is one of the things that is, it's a secret sauce for preaching that a lot of guys just don't have the guts to do because it takes time to do, I don't know, an average sermon. I'm a, I'm a 30 minute preacher usually. So, uh, but that's 30 minutes of your day of just listening and sometimes you'll pause and make a note on that kind of stuff. Once you're done, you're
Speaker 2 00:24:01 Like, I'm done with that. I don't want to go back to it. I told him that's over, I'll work
Speaker 0 00:24:05 Next week. I got next week sermon to get ready for. So, and so it can be, it can be 30 minutes of pain to start your week, you know, to, to kinda listen to your yourself, preach. You have to hear all the mistakes that you made and nobody is as critical as you are of yourself when you do these messages. I find. So I know that's definitely the case for me is that I'm hyper critical of all these things like this last week. I hadn't preached in a while, uh, kind of in, at big here. And so I was up there in front of everybody and I was looking at my face and I'm like, man, I need to, I need to be, I need to have more animation or smile more with my face. I just looked and I kind of got better as the sermon went on, but I noticed that when I start sermons, I really need to have just much more of an engaging, uh, face or personality on those things. I just, I looked like someone like, uh, like an angry librarian I thought when I was looking at it. So again, that's probably me being critical. I'm sorry, am
Speaker 2 00:24:57 I? That is because you didn't come off that I have some critique for you. We'll talk after the podcast, but, uh, but, uh, but you didn't, you're right. You're harder on yourself. Cause I didn't think he looked like an angry.
Speaker 0 00:25:08 I appreciate that. So we, uh, I think it's something that I know this is really hard to do, uh, but I think that you can get better. And one of the best ways to get better at preaching with, or without notes is to watch yourself back each and every week and watch back in the mind, not to not to make like what I'm tempted to do is, Hey, here's all the 45 things that I did wrong today. And I need to do better at this. And if you just find one, if you just find one thing that you want to improve on in each and every sermon, uh, even if it's a small incremental shift, I kind of think of it this way. If you were to make a 1% improvement every single week and you preach, I don't know, 40 or 50 sermons a year. I mean, you're a 50% better preacher after a year. You're twice as good two years from now at preaching as you are now. And so just little incremental improvements, they go a long way to make a really big difference in the way that you deliver, uh, deliver content there. So yeah, I think that's something that would be helpful to everybody. That's hard, but I think it's something you can do. So what do you have to happen as we close up? No, not
Speaker 2 00:26:12 Much. I think that's good. I think hopefully this was helpful to some pastors and again, it's a little out of the normal what we usually do our episodes on, but yeah, I think that it, it, it, hopefully Brent brought something new maybe to a pastor out there that they haven't been in.
Speaker 0 00:26:28 Yeah. I hope so too. So if this has been helpful for you guys, uh, it would mean a lot to us. If you would, uh, rate review subscribe, don't forget to let us know if Ian looks darker in the comments down there. That's important for us after his show is Hawaii. It looks a little darker than my freckles when we saw you last. But remember I used natural light too in front of me here. So that always has to be a little lighter. That's exactly right. I'm just, I'm trying to get any help I can here. So, but it does mean a lot to us. If you would rate, review, subscribe, if you have any other tips for other people and that maybe the retried family would want to know more about or our community here, maybe some tips that help you preach without notes, or if you think it's silly to, you can try, let us know in the comments that would be helpful. We just want to have a conversation on this to make pastors better. Uh, that's what we're all about. Helping people, helping churches, reach people the right way is what we're all about here at reach. Right? So, um, so yeah, let us know, rate review subscribe. Thanks for being part of the retried family. And we'll catch you guys next week. <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:27:29 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out
[email protected]. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week. <inaudible>.
