Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 In today's episode, we unpack five rules for churches moving to a remote work model. The pandemic has changed the way people think about work. New technologies have made working from home feasible for more people than ever before. But before your church pivots to a remote work strategy, it is essential to count the cost. Join us as we discuss the ways your church can make that transition successfully. We hope this conversation helps your church reach more people and grow.
Speaker 1 00:00:40 You're listening to the right podcast. The show dedicated to helping pastors and church leaders reach people the right way, hosted by me, Thomas Costello, and with me as always is my cohost Ian Hyatt. We're here to help your church see more visitors and grow. Hey guys, welcome to the retreat pod
Speaker 0 00:01:08 Cast episode number 38. I am your host Thomas Costello. And with me as always is my cohost Ian. Hi. Hey Thomas. What's up? Oh, not too much, man. Good to, good to see a man looking forward to our conversation here today. Uh, we're going to be talking about five rules for churches moving to remote work. Uh, that's a conversation. I think a lot of churches and businesses are having right now is, um, with the pandemic, uh, kind of, uh, coming and hopefully going that, uh, we've discovered that may be this remote work thing. It can work and I think churches are discovering it. So I think it'd be a good conversation as a couple of guys who have been doing remote work, uh, for over five years, I guess now, or more than that, I guess even before that. So, but not as, as a company retreat, we've been exclusively remote from our founding, uh, you and I have, uh, we founded the company together and have haven't worked together in the same place the entire time.
Speaker 0 00:02:09 So we've been in person with each other, but maybe we spent a total of a week and a half together over the last five years, I would say. So it's, uh, it's, it's so funny, you know, though, we've been remote when we see each other in person, we still kind of feel like we didn't miss a beat. So that's, there's something to be said for that. It works. So it's done right when it's done. Right. I think that's the challenge is that there's all kinds of mistakes that you can make. I think that makes a remote, working, not successful. And I think churches have a unique set of challenges because you and I are both not of the, um, remote only camp for churches. I think that that's not something that I think that where we are, I believe that not for sinking the assembly of the brethren, that is something that should be applied physically. And we should always, as long as it's possible, uh, we're not gathered. We weren't people that were, uh, resisting lockdowns either at the same time, we understood it made sense for most churches to, to close down for at least a season during the pandemic year. It seemed like, but we are both excited to be fully back into worship. I am not yet still at our church in Honolulu here. I know you are completely basically back to normal services right at your church there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:22 Yeah, we are. We are. Yeah. So personally it's been refreshing I'm in the same, same camp in agreement with you we're foreign person, but uh, not anti remote and all of that. There's a balance to it all, I think.
Speaker 0 00:03:33 Yeah, absolutely. So all that to say, I think that, you know, you're still probably going to show up on Sundays at church. That's going to be an important part of things, uh, that might not always, that might not be remote for, for your church and for the foreseeable future there. But I think during the week, there is a strong case to be made for less office hours for people in ministry and more remote work. Now in churches that I've pastored, I've always been kind of a remote setup. I've never really worked in an office. So I think it's something that we've, we've, uh, we've built up towards, I guess I had worked at an office back in the, uh, mid two thousands. So 2003 through 2007, we were in an office, but a home office is something that you and I are both really comfortable with. And I think we've, we've crafted five rules. I think that will help for churches exploring this Avenue. Or maybe they're trying to make maybe that change. They made to be remote thinking about making it more permanent. Uh here's our, so here are some things, I guess, some rules that we've come up with that helped us to do well with that. And I think it'll help churches do well with remote work.
Speaker 2 00:04:38 Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. Let's dig in. Why don't you tackle number one?
Speaker 0 00:04:42 I will do so the first one is it's important when you move to remote work that you measure results and not hours you measure results and not hours. And I think this has been so paramount. I think that's part of what people love about remote work is that usually if you get your stuff done, uh, then you can, if then you're good. Like it's something that just getting your work done is the chief thing. Uh, so I think that for some churches they're still caught up in kind of the hourly worker mindset. Uh, and so there's a certain expectation that you arrive at the opposite this time and you leave the office at this time and you take off for any meetings you have and everything, but there's like, you're judged based on the number of hours that you spend in office. And I just would say that that hasn't been a healthy model for a while now.
Speaker 0 00:05:30 And I think it's really obvious that that model is unhealthy at this point. I know for me, uh, in that time I mentioned before I had about four years where I worked in a church office, uh, I found myself often having lots of work to do, uh, but then often having very little work to do and just twiddling my thumbs around the office for a time to meet a certain office hour standard. So, and there's always stuff to be done. And, and I just know that for me, I'm who is relatively driven, uh, especially when I'm working for my own, uh, you know, cause or my own business. But I think when I'm an employee somewhere, it it's, I know that I'm supposed to be working. I know that it's something that, uh, there's a certain moral standard that I need to be working as hard as I can for the company or the church that I'm working for. But at the same time, it's just, when, when there's, uh, there's not expected work for me, those those hours were oftentimes just wasted. So I think it's so important that churches really look at how they can measure results and not just hours. So maybe you have something to add on that Ian, and maybe some ideas if you have any on what are things that churches can measure as results other than measuring hours, I guess. So what can you speak to on that?
Speaker 2 00:06:41 Yeah, well, I think what I was gonna say is, is basically what you just finished with. I think that churches, regardless of this topic here, uh, and working remotely, they should sit down and have serious talks about what are the results that we need to measure just as a church in general. And when you get that stuff settled, well then you know what your remote, you know, employees or staff or whoever's serving at your church, what they should be driving towards and what they should be producing. And that this goes for church and business alike, right? So we we've come up with measurements here at reach, right? That we say, if we, you know, and I know churches, they don't have a sales quota or anything like that, or they don't have a, uh, you know, amount of, uh, of celebration. You don't have to just call them myself.
Speaker 2 00:07:28 I just caught myself. I was going to say they don't have like an amount of appointments quota, but I will say this, I just took a step back. I realized that the men's pastor at our church, he, he does like, they, there's an expectation for him to take X amount of guys out, to lunch, to kind of pour into them and see where they're at spiritually. So it could be something like that. How many touches you as a staff member have with the, um, the person that you're serving, whether or not it's a women's pastor men's packs or small groups? Um, it could be how many active, small groups you have at a given time and when your small group semester's going, and then how many you want to be added towards the end of the year. And it could be salvation and baptisms. I mean, I know that that's a spiritual thing and, and, uh, to measure that it's different than measuring, uh, sales, uh, you know, revenue and those types of things. But I think to sit down and look at that, and, and, and when you look at each staff member's position, whether or not it's worship, you know, uh, whatever they need to handle for production, media, people, all of that, this needs to happen in this given month with these events. There's a lot of stuff to think through, depending upon the kind of church you are, but when you do that, then you know what your people are, what they should be doing in a given day or month or week. Yep.
Speaker 0 00:08:46 Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's just an ongoing conversation for a lot of churches is what is that thing we are going to measure now. And I think for most churches we're discovering that it is some form of an engagement metric, like how engaged are people. And there's so many ways to measure that, but it's usually some conversation combination of, uh, conversations and actual talking to people. Uh, you're measuring things like numbers of volunteers and donations and, uh, people that are involved in small groups. And so the old metrics of a butts in seats and how many people show up on Sundays, that's kind of moving away from the forefront of people's minds into some of these more, uh, more informative type metrics. And I think some form of engagement is what you need to be measuring. And so the main thing is that, uh, in this new remote world where working remotely is going to be something that's more and more common and more and more expected from most employers, finding ways to really hone down what those metrics are and counting that at not time spent or hours, that's really what becomes most important.
Speaker 2 00:09:54 Yeah, no, that's good. And I'll say one more thing to that. I think that, you know, there's something to be said when you said you found yourself, like when you were on a church staff where you were, you had a physical office at the church, and when there was just downtime, you were twiddling your thumbs. I think that when people, when they know that they're, you know, results driven and that's what they're being held accountable to, when they get their stuff done, they can be productive in other areas that they can't be. You know, maybe if they're just sitting at a desk or a cube, something like that, you know, they can get some other things done. And I'm not suggesting that someone needs to go off and run all their errands during work time or anything like that, but they can get other things done.
Speaker 2 00:10:34 And I, I, I personally, when I can get to the end of the day and say, I got all my work stuff done, but I was able to get these other side things done. I feel more productive and I feel healthier the next day that I come to work. And I think that there's some freedom to that. Um, and it's, as long as someone stays on task and everything there, when people feel empowered and liberated, which I think working remotely, whether or not it's for church or a company can, can do, then I think they're much healthier and they're going to be more productive. There's been plenty of studies even before the pandemic, uh, that show that. So, yeah, that's my last thing, dad.
Speaker 0 00:11:10 That's good. No, I appreciate that hit number two for us.
Speaker 2 00:11:12 Yeah. Number two is work harder at culture and, uh, this is something that's important because it is easier for many people. Um, we, we just had this chat before starting the podcast. How you, you know, you were talking about how some, you feel like you're somewhat of an introvert and I'm probably more of an extrovert. Uh, and I'm not that you're totally introverted. We're doing a podcast and you're doing great Thomas, but you know, we've talked about that when we think about work culture, though, for those, there's a lot of people when they're a part of a team and they're physically around, uh, and there's, there's this culture, there's this, uh, um, uh, it atmosphere. That's probably a good word. When I think of culture, there's an atmosphere like a work that really does help. Some people and people thrive on like doing team activities or the, you know, you take the, um, the accounting team out for bowling and lunch together.
Speaker 2 00:12:05 They're building culture and they're talking about company values and there's something to be said for that happening physically. So I think when it comes to remotely, you have to be working remotely. You have to be a little more intentional, um, to build culture. Um, and I'm not suggesting that you over zoom or Slack and there's other things like that to play games or something like that, and be silly over video. But I think you got to be more intentional, but you know, this well and running a reach. Right. And how you've, you've done that. So you probably have a little bit more to add when it comes to that.
Speaker 0 00:12:38 Yeah. I think that, so you and I, we worked together Ian for years in a physical office before reach, right. Uh, we worked together at the same place. And, uh, I think that what I have found is that in a physical location culture just, it happens organically. And the thing about that is it happens both good and bad, right? So it's not to say that that just being together automatically makes good culture at a company or at a church or any place because you and I both know that we had, um, great camaraderie and areas, but terrible culture and other places at that same, at that same time there. Right. So I think you said it exactly right. That it has to be something that you just, it doesn't culture doesn't make itself when you're working remotely as easily as it does when you're working in person.
Speaker 0 00:13:25 And so you need to be much more intentional about the culture that you're creating in a remote work environment, because you don't have that luxury of just being right by someone eight hours a day, or right. With people where you have access to them all the time. It is just a different kind of a thing. So I think the way we say it is we need to work harder at creating culture, be more intentional about the culture that we're trying to create. And so I agree with you. It's like, it's not as easy cause you can't do a kind of fun team building events the same way you can. I think that, you know, you and I, we make a point of getting together at, we live, I'm in Honolulu, you're in Texas, you know, we're going to see you guys in a few months, but we make a point doing that every other year. So I know it's been tough with the pandemic and we're okay.
Speaker 2 00:14:12 They put it off,
Speaker 0 00:14:13 We had to put it off that's right. So, but, so we do occasionally make a point of being actually together. But I think that there's just lots of other opportunities that we're living in a digital world now. And so, you know what I would say that culture can be built through memes, right? Like, so, so through, through a thing like gifts that are shared and that kind of stuff that people, I mean, we do those kinds of things all day that kind of reinforce our culture and our values. And I think it's really important. So
Speaker 2 00:14:41 Funny videos, so same thing, you know, within, there's plenty of funny church videos to send to out there. So
Speaker 0 00:14:48 There are plenty of great church meme accounts on Instagram, Twitter. So look them up, but just, I don't know, having some of that kind of fun, poking fun at yourselves at your own expense, that kind of stuff. I think it really goes a long way to, um, to building the culture and every church is going to have a different kind of culture. Maybe you're going to have a very formal culture. I know we have a very informal culture within retried, but we take our work seriously. But as far as we relate to each other, it's, uh, it's been really healthy. I think the kind of culture that we've built here. So, um, the point is being intentional about it. I think you're right with that.
Speaker 2 00:15:23 Yeah. One other little idea. If, if someone's looking for kind of, uh, that I know one of the things I enjoy about our conversations when we have them over video or whatever we do is that we really start off with, uh, either razzing each other about sports, our sports teams, or, uh, but we, but we're intentional to ask about how our weekends went, our plans kids, and we got to dig in a little bit deeper than I think you do in person when you're hearing about that. So we, I know we kind of go a little deeper now into, you know, all the details of our weekend or what's coming up and those types of things. And that's really been a healthy thing for us. So one other little idea kind of ideas, but intentionality is the key thing. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:16:04 I think there's not a water cooler, right? There's no place for us to pause and chat. We don't have those unless we're intentional about it. You know, we don't get to share live is the same way that we used to when we lived in the same place and we saw each other every day, it's just a different world, but, um, you know, it's been good. So I'll hit number three, I guess next I'll dig in. Uh, it's, it's important when you're working remotely, that you centralize all communication that you have one way that staff communicates with each other. Uh, and I'll just go ahead and get it out there. That one way should not be email. Uh, that's not the best way to have every conversation. So, um, there's lots of different ways to do this. I know for our organization and a lot of churches have made a move to be on Slack.
Speaker 0 00:16:47 Slack is a great, uh, great software piece that just kind of is a really, it's effectively an instant messaging client. Uh, you and I, before we've used things like Skype to do that. We used, uh, AOL instant messenger or aim. You know, we were on that for, that was our, that was our original communication channel to send messages to one another. And, uh, it's a great Slack is fantastic because it integrates really well with all kinds of other software out there. It's great at handling memes, like we talked about before. So, uh, sending quick videos, sending this funny things and kind of keeping your culture alive. Yep. That's right. So, uh, but I think that having a platform where all communication happens, where group conversations can happen, where updates are taking place, where there's teams you can build on there. And it really is important.
Speaker 0 00:17:39 So I know the, at the churches, I've pastored, we've used Slack as the main connection model for a remote staff and it really works brilliantly. Uh, but you have to kind of the line on that. So there has to be an expectation that everybody is on Slack whenever they're at working hours. And it's the way we communicate. And, um, if you're not on Slack, it's almost like assumed that you're not available or not working at that time. Uh, so that has been the way that we have centralized all communication. Uh, I know that there's some movement on a software called discord. Uh, that's what my son uses. It was, I don't know. It seems like it was mostly kind of a gaming channel that
Speaker 2 00:18:17 Has asked about it too. He's asked
Speaker 0 00:18:19 About it. Okay. Is he allowed to use discord?
Speaker 2 00:18:22 We haven't looked quite into it. It's a new, we just heard about this about a month ago. So yeah.
Speaker 0 00:18:26 Yeah. So I I've seen it. They're about to get acquired by Microsoft is what the rumors are right now. So it's going to be much more legit when that happens. It seems like what it's effectively pretty similar to Slack, maybe a little bit more technical with those things. So maybe that's right for your church. Maybe there's some other software, maybe your church communication software, uh, has something built in there. I don't really care so much about what it is, but making sure you have one platform that isn't email, uh, because, and it, Oh, let me say this here too. It should not be text messages because having text as your primary communication model and everybody being on the same group, chat on texts. Oh my goodness. That is such a nightmare to have, uh, you know, having a group of, let's say eight people, or let's say you're a worship team, the primary way you're communicating. If that's via via text, uh, it's just a nightmare because every time someone likes a text or sends a meme that you get another notification on your text and it goes off at all hours of the day, don't make that mistake, use something official for this Slack is inexpensive, get something like that and centralize your communication. So what do you have to add to that? Again,
Speaker 2 00:19:32 Not much. I am a person that hates group texts, but I think sometimes they serve a purpose. But, uh, but I agree with you, uh, 100% on that and what I would say too, that we've seen with Slack or, or things in the like, uh, again, we're not just saying you have to use Slack. Um, but we, we, we like it and use it. And as we've said, so we have experience with it, but it also has channels and things that you can create for specific work items. And everyone's kept in the loop a lot more everyone seeing the same stuff. So it saves conversations to say, Hey, who, who who's on the worship project? Who's on the, Easter's coming up, obviously when we're recording this. So, you know who who's on the production side, did this thing get done and all that, then that person has to go ask so-and-so who wasn't in the loop. So it, I think it will make your team more productive too, because everyone's in the loop and has the ability to communicate and see what the other person said about a project. And so I think it'll keep people, it saves time and I put it that way. So having centralized communication. So that's all I have dad. So yeah,
Speaker 0 00:20:34 I think one other nice thing about a Slack or something like it is you have a, um, a nearly eternal record of everything that was ever sent. And so I find myself, you know, there's some kind of information of maybe it's a contact info or some kind of a question on what an assignment was, something like that. You have a record of it. It can always go back, you can refer to things that you and I sent to each other three years ago, it's all in there it's saved. And it, uh, it, it just kind of helps with efficiency with that stuff.
Speaker 2 00:21:02 It was right and correct in an argument and, and, you know, made the infraction and then you'd log it for HR. I'm kidding. So why not tackle number four? Uh, and that's a watch out for burnout. And it's kind of funny when, when we came up with this, this point here at first glance, I was kinda like, well, you know, I don't know. I feel like, you know, people think of the corporate world getting more burned out from, you know, meetings and micromanagement, and we've kind of, uh, experienced a little bit of that stuff in the past is, as we've talked about seeing goods and bads to being in an office or a corporate like environment, but I think it can really happen actually when people are on their own at, at working remotely from home or wherever, uh, if they're just always on task and not, you know, and it just becomes like a hamster in a wheel type thing every day, or, you know, like the movie Groundhog day, you will wake up and it's the same day over and over again. And those are some things that I come to that come to mind. So I think that you do have to, like we said, being intentional at working at culture, you have to be intentional to not burnout as well. So your thoughts on it.
Speaker 0 00:22:10 Yeah. I think that this is a big one. I think that it's at first glance, you would think that it's, life-giving to be able to be at your own home, uh, beyond your own kind of your own schedule. You drop your commute, you don't have to deal with all kinds of the office interruptions and those things, but I think it can be isolating for people. And I think isolation oftentimes, uh, is one of the key factors in people getting burned out is that they don't have that regular interaction with people. So I think it's important that any church that considers going to remote work, that they really count back cost and they make sure they understand that, uh, the isolation that people can tend to feel if they're not intentional about the things we've talked about already, like communication and culture, those kinds of things, that burnout will set an even more quickly, especially if you have someone who's driven and they're really, you have a results oriented kind of an organization, and they're going pedal to the metal all the time.
Speaker 0 00:23:06 And they're not, some people kind of thrive in this place where they can leave their work at work and they can turn off at five o'clock head home and not have to be thinking about it. But when your home is your office, and you're one of those driven type of people, it's hard to turn that off. I know that, uh, your, your wife, she works for retrial also, she's that type of person that, so, whereas you, you're a cut of Fred Flintstone yet, but dabba do five in the afternoon and you're out of there, your wife, she's the type of person that would work until 11 o'clock. If everything wasn't done and then it's right place. So
Speaker 2 00:23:41 I, I jokingly said, I have to interrupt because it yesterday, so we were leaving and there's some, uh, some bedding and some stone work that I'm doing as a personal project for a, in our front yard. And I stopped it because it was time consuming. We had all stuff going on in the weekend and sitting there. And so she seeing this pile of dirt and this work left unfinished, and she was just like, you know, when are you going to get to that? And I was like, it'll get done. And I was like, I'm not one to leave things undone on. He, and she just laughed because she knew that was not true, but you're right, exactly. She's a task oriented person. If something's left out there, she, she would just lose track of time. And, uh, and you know, if I need a hand with something and I'm done and she's like, I have to finish this thing first. I can't. And so, uh, so you're right now with that example.
Speaker 0 00:24:27 No, I think that, that's it. And I think as a organization leaders, pastors who are maybe listening to this, if you're leading an organization, that's moving to remote, it's part of our responsibility to watch out for those people that are maybe wired that way, that they are, they can't leave something undone because at some point jobs will grow. And when people do a good job, more work has given to them. And we're in that situation, obviously with, even with your wife right now, just that her job has grown and grown and grown because she's so effective at what she does. And so it's just important that we kind of watch out in those situations and we care for them and we make sure that we help them, uh, just to, to have permission, to take a step back and, and kind of keep an eye out for that kind of burnout. So that's the whole point there is that you, you will, people are wired differently. And even if you feel like it's life-giving to be working from home, don't assume that everybody in your organization is the same way and keep a very watchful eye out there for burnout.
Speaker 2 00:25:25 Yeah. Know your people, if someone seems like they are getting burned out, take them out to lunch, you know, let them, you know, address those things. So that's okay.
Speaker 0 00:25:33 That's good. That's good. Let me wrap it up here with number five. It is important to schedule regular video interaction. Uh, this is something that you and I have done, uh, almost, I mean, there's been some, uh, issues, I guess over time, we've had days we've missed and stuff, but almost every single Workday over the last five and a half years. Uh, and even before that, when we started working remotely at other companies and things, we have connected via video almost every single day, uh, we live in a fantastic time, uh, because there were times where this wasn't possible, uh, for you younger listeners out there, that there was a time before these video calls and zooms. And, uh, you know, we've been doing this for a long time though. So I can say that it has been culture building relational building and just it's made our company much better, being able to have regular conversations.
Speaker 0 00:26:26 So what we do is when we need to talk, we, we almost never talk on the phone with anybody within our company. Uh, we almost always will choose to video call because there are just certain things that are more personal and more connecting when we do it via video, that you can't quite accomplish over the phone. Now, if we're out and about, we make phone calls just like anybody else, but anytime we're available, I think we all, as an organization, part of our culture is that we prefer to get onto a video call. Uh, even if we're not in our Sunday best or, you know, you've, you've caught me shirtless working before, and it's something now I am in Hawaii. So it's okay. It's a different kind of place. It's part of the culture here. Culture. Yeah, that's exactly right. But I don't know. I just think that having regular video interaction with your staff, uh, that is something that really is vital. If you're going to make remote work for you, because that really compensates for a lot of what would be lost being in person. So what do you have to add?
Speaker 2 00:27:23 Yeah, not much other than I agree when I, at the opening part of this podcast, when I said, you know, w when we have seen each other physically, when we'd come to visit each other at our cities and in our homes and stayed together, you know, when I said we didn't, I kind of felt like we didn't miss a beat, you know, it's, you know, when I saw you, it wasn't like, I felt like, Oh, you know, you know, my long lost buddy here, what happened, you know, and catch up. But we, you know, we've been interacting now, again, we prefer the in-person stuff, but at the same time, it's really helped us stay close. And I think too, when you think about your church staff, there's a lot to be said when you see someone, you know, you get a better when we were just talking about watching out for burnout, you know, um, kind of difficult to just over a phone conversation or texting or something to kind of understand where someone's at sometimes. And when you see them, you know, um, you, you know, you can kind of read and just, you know, it's just, it just does more, there's a little bit better interaction. And I think it's just healthier for communication. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:28:22 Yeah, I think so. So I think it's important that you make that your, um, I would make it your communication standard. So we, we do communication via Slack. And when we need to have an actual conversation, we do it in video. Uh, you know, so you can do video through Slack. That's how we typically do it. But, uh, these calls, we do them via zoom and there's all kinds of software solutions out there for that. But having that as the organizational standard is important. And then I think just having your regularly scheduled kind of conversations, if you're going remote, I think having, uh, all team gatherings, having those happen on regular intervals, and I don't know what it is maybe for your church. I think you probably ought to do it more if you're remote than you did, if you were in person. So if you had a weekly staff meeting, when you were in person that lasted, um, you know, uh, for 30 minutes or something like that, you know, that's, that's great, but maybe consider if you're doing them remotely, maybe having more, maybe having two or three a week of chances just to recenter, reconnect with one another.
Speaker 0 00:29:23 And again, nobody is all about having more meetings for meetings sake, but I think there's just more than there's. You need to be more intentional about these things when you're working remotely. So having regular intervals of having staff meetings, where everybody is all together, and we can air our grievances and talk about our challenges, talk about our big victories and what our biggest opportunities are. I think that's just really important to kind of continue building the culture, coming back to that again, there was good, good stuff. Awesome. Yeah. That's good. Well, good. Well, I just think it's something that all a lot of churches should be thinking about these ideas. I think more and more churches that we're talking to are looking at, going remote for their day-to-day operations. There's all kinds of advantages to it. I think there's huge cost savings that are there for churches.
Speaker 0 00:30:10 And I think that you're going to see more and more, uh, potential employees or pastors within your church that are, are, are excited about it. And maybe if you're looking to hire new people, that will be almost an expectation for this new generation of digital native type young people that are coming up there where their expectation would be a willingness or at least an openness to remote working. So I think it's something that every church needs to be really thinking about ways to make this maybe a part of their culture there. And yeah, I hope this has been a helpful conversation for you guys as we've dug into this a little bit here. So if it has, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review, subscribe, share this podcast with others, if you found it helpful, and thank you so much for being a part of our reach right family, and we will catch you guys next week.
Speaker 1 00:31:00 Thanks for listening to the reach right podcast. We hope this episode will help you reach people the right way, looking for more resources for your church. Check us out online at reach, right studios.com. If this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean the world to us. If you would rate, review and subscribe on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next week. Yes, <inaudible>.
