Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, I'm sure you're already aware of this, but church visitors have radically changed in just the last ten years. In this conversation, we're going to unpack some of those changes and what your church should do to prepare yourself to see more visitors and grow. Let's do this.
You're listening to The Reach Right podcast, the show dedicated to helping your church reach more people and grow.
You. Hey, guys, I'm Thomas.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: And I'm ian.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: And today we're talking about church visitors and how they have changed over the last ten years. I think one of the things that we do in churches is we tend to find something that works and then just kind of stick with it. But in reality, church visitors are really very different. What you and I, we've been in ministry for a long time. You and I, we planted a church together back in 2007. So a little over a lot over ten years ago, I guess now at this point, but that's 16 years ago, recording this here in 2023.
But they are very different, the things that we saw back then. And having been in ministry since then, we've seen this evolution, if you will, of visitors and what's been going on with them. So today we want to unpack some of the ways that we see visitors changing. I think it should be a good conversation. What do you think, Ian?
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I think so. Obviously, churches want to know how to reach visitors, and that's what we help churches do. And so it's a very relevant topic here. So, yeah, we should dig in.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: That's well said. Yeah. I think at Reachwrite, we're in the business of helping churches reach more people and grow. But if you don't understand what they're looking for, I think you can reach all kinds of visitors and scare them away if you're not careful with these things. So, yeah, that's it. So why don't you kind of tackle, I guess, what were visitors like ten years ago, and then I'll give you some feedback on and we can kind of dialogue about how they're different now.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds fun. And the first one we're going to talk about is first impressions.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: So what visitors expected a decade ago, we got to understand they were getting invited through word of mouth, personal invitations, they would drive by and notice your church's building. The physical presence of the church played more of a crucial role.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
So Digital definitely existed ten years ago. It's not like we didn't have Facebook and those things in 2013, but it's just so different now that for everybody, almost everybody, their first impression of our church is going to be what we're like online now. I will say that I don't feel like personal invitation has gone away, obviously.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: That is still the primary way that people are going to get involved in a church and the way that they're going to give their lives to jesus is not through an instagram post in most cases, but a face to face conversation with a real person. But we cannot neglect the fact that the online and the digital is kind of where the first impression is really set of what your church is like. So this is primarily going to be on your social channels and your website. Those are the two kind of the two headed horsemen, I guess, of digital impressions for people there. So getting your website right, making sure your social media is dialed in and it's making a good first impression, I think it's a good practice to be in to do kind of an audit of this at least once a year, of taking a look and just trying to look at your presence from a totally outside perspective. One of the mistakes that so many churches make is that they set up their social media and their website for internal purposes, to communicate about events for members and sign up opportunities and giving out sermon notes and those kinds of things. Whereas we really recommend in both of these areas to make it outward focused because this is the first impression zone. This is where this stuff happens for people.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: That's good. And the next one we're going to cover is the value system of visitors ten years ago and today. So ten years ago, traditionally visitors sought churches that mirrored their personal beliefs and upheld certain traditions and churches that aligned with their personal values and the teachings were paramount. Little different today, right?
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the biggest difference today is the emphasis that's placed on authenticity. And this has been coming for a long time. I mean, I think this was a core value for us when we planted 16 years ago was being an authentic expression of Jesus and following him, and we wanted people to be able to be real. But I think that has only grown and it shows no signs of slowing down because no, we live in such a curated world where everything is dialed in and all of these messages that you'll see online and in our lives are just so perfectly created that the thing that churches can bring to people is real, authentic relationship and community. And I think that's really the value that people emphasize now more than ever. So I don't know, what do you think?
[00:05:02] Speaker B: No, I agree. And I mean, obviously with culture and just the way things have gone, authenticity, like you said, it's only growing. And by the way, that's biblical to be authentically, following and showing Christ.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Let me say this. I think that there's a fear that a lot of times we have as church leaders that if we're too authentic and we tell people that, hey, I struggled and I yelled at my kids the other day or something like that, and we live that kind of stuff, I think that's a barrier that has been broken down. Whereas maybe ten years ago or that might have floored visitors to hear that. Right. To hear someone say, oh, this guy, I would never go to his church. He yelled at his kids once.
In reality, we all know that everybody and maybe that's not your struggle, but we all know that we have these kinds of things and as church leaders, we're not perfect. And your visitors expect at this point that you would be a real person that has challenges that are not too dissimilar from theirs. So yeah, I think this kind of authenticity is really valuable now.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: No, that's well said, well said. Well, the next one is theological exposure. So visitors ten years ago, they primarily relied on local churches or books for theological perspectives and understanding was often shaped by the teachings at their local congregation. And this is, I think, still somewhat relevant. And whatever literature or books and discipleship resources your church is providing, those are still valuable. But there's been a shift from just people relying on those things.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it really is different. This is probably the biggest one of all of them is I think that people now, when they want an answer to a theological question, there's no limit of answers and you can find an answer that will agree with whatever you want your theological answer to be, right? So if you do a search for any topic, any topic you'll find in all of scripture, you can find cases made online and YouTube videos about it and teachings on it that argue complete opposite sides. If you want to believe in the prosperity gospel, you can find messages and evidence online of that. You can find evidence of a poverty gospel on the other side of things and you can find teachers of that. And people are coming into our churches as visitors, having already done some of their own research on these things, and they just come in with a different level of theological experience. I'm not saying I actually think this in a lot of ways is bad because we tend to basically embrace the theology that we basically are our own gods and we want to embrace our own theology and decide what's right and wrong for ourselves and we can find someone that agrees with us on that. So it is really a tricky minefield. Whereas people before they would come in looking to you to answer those questions right, you're basically making your case to people that are probably a little bit more sophisticated in some of their arguments than they used to be. So the simple things that maybe we used to say, the simple one line quips to overcome objections on evolution or LGBTQ issues or something, those just don't work anymore. We need to know a lot more as pastors and be ready to answer some of those tougher questions and look at other theological perspectives and be able to give a reason for the hope that we have in the face of them.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah, created a little bit more extra work for us in ministry, but worth it because of, like you said, the plethora of knowledge out there that people have access to and like you said, making it what they want. So that's very important. So next one is going to be a fun one. Social and political concerns. So ten years ago, people preferred churches to kind of remain more neutral on this with social and political issues separating faith from societal debates and all of that. So unfortunately a little different these days.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. And I'm not saying that we probably need to resist this still. Honestly, I think that's just my perspective on things and I'd love to hear if you have a comment about that, if you want to drop a comment down below if you have a different perspective on this. But I know for a fact that people are expecting to learn about a church's political leanings and they want to be able to go to a church that already embraces their political ideologies. And that just wasn't the to the last church I pastored. We were pastoring in a very blue area in Madison, Wisconsin. And we were very neutral on everything politically. But we grew in the resistance. We got to that, especially as Donald Trump came into office in a blue city.
I was asked on a multiple times per week. I was asked by new people, by people that are just considering visiting our church, hey, what does your church think about this? They're expecting me to give some kind of a defense or rebuke towards Donald Trump or our any political issue at the time, whereas obviously we didn't feel like that was our position. And so we did our absolute best to remain neutral on these things. But there is no doubt that people are looking for someone or a pastor or a church that would already agree with their political leanings. And that's almost like a criteria that people have in choosing a church now. So how we overcome that, I mean, I think that's something that you really need to delicately remain neutral. That's my recommendation to every pastor out there. But again, I imagine there's a lot of pastors that disagree with me. I know that there's people that are conservative and people that are more progressive that think that maybe churches should embrace that and reach that certain kind of person. That's just not something I was ever willing to do. But let us know in the comments.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: If that's you yeah, no and also comes to mind to always steer everything to the word of God, to the Bible there. That will also help more than helping. So anyway with that particular challenge so community expectations our next one. So ten years ago, church was primarily a place of worship with social events and community involvement kind of playing a secondary role. Now not so much the case, and I think this is actually a positive.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think that especially when it comes to engagement, like, outside of the walls of our church. So what our church is doing for our community, that has become almost like an evangelistic opportunity for people that want to serve. I have found that over and over again that people, they might not be willing to come to some kind of an event at our church, or if we do a harvest party at our church or a Christmas Eve service, but if it came to us doing a homeless service within our community, they would love to partner with our church. And I've actually seen people become members of our church because the first event they ever went to was a Laundry Love event where people would go and do clothes washing for people that couldn't afford to do it otherwise. And they loved that opportunity so much that they wanted to know more about who we were. So that wasn't just a ministry to the people that we were washing their clothes, but it was also a ministry to people who got to help people wash their clothes. And so really, it's amazing to see that. I think that is a totally radical shift that we've seen over the last ten years as people really want to have that kind of community engagement in their church.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned laundry love. I was thinking of that already. You and I used to do that ministry together at our church that we pastored at together, and it brought back a memory. My sister, who's not a Christ follower, I remember she told me, hey, I won't come to one of your church services, but I love what y'all are doing with Laundry Love, and I'd love to come help out if you trip. Yeah, it is crazy. And that was how long ago? Thomas? More than a long time ago. There you go. Thank you. You're not far behind me. All right, next one. Children and youth programs. Ten years ago, parents expected kind of basic Sunday school youth programs focusing on children's biblical teachings or moral lessons. Parents got more expectations these days, don't they?
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Yeah, they do.
I don't know that I think the expectations of ten years ago, they seem basic to what we are now. Like, when I was pastoring ten years ago or 15 years ago, we already knew this. It was already upping the ante. If you go back 30 years, I think that maybe you could make a case that back then we were okay just to have babysitting to be available for kids, and parents get the education, obviously. I think ten years ago we figured that out. But the ante has just been upped even further now that the expectations of parents for the ways that their kids will be ministered to, cared for, have a good time, that stuff is higher than it's ever been. So churches are wise to take that really seriously.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: I think security too. One other thing I would add there just in the day and age and with certain things that have transpired at churches, unfortunately that's a big concern I've seen more than ever before, churches have actual like a security. I don't know if they'd always call them a pastor, but they have a team around security.
That's interesting.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: I imagine, especially at larger churches. That's really something that they I mean, all churches should take security of their kids seriously. And I think having appropriate check in systems and security, but having whole teams dedicated to it, I think that is becoming an expectation and I think larger churches can usually execute that well.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. Next one's. Connection expectations. So ten years ago, connection was kind of through newsletters, announcements, face to face interactions, like after the service.
Makes me think of the pastor that always and it's okay if you still do this pastor, but the pastor standing at the back after the service to greet people. Yeah, a little different these days.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that hasn't gone away, right?
I would argue that a face to face connection, a hug, a handshake, whatever it would be, is still probably the most intimate and life giving kind of interaction we can have with people.
I just think it's really gone digital where this kind of interaction and communication has to happen digitally throughout the week if we really want to engage with our church family there. So this is going to look like obviously the things you're putting onto social media, it's an engagement method. The things you're putting onto your website, I think that you should be having some kind of a solution for emailing and texting your church. Both of those things I think are really important. So I think with the email, we've done several episodes and we can link to one up here in the card up here on the top, but we've done episodes on how to really master that church email newsletter and how to make that really work for you. The key one giveaway is that hit a hard call to action. One clear, specific call to action every time you do it. That's so important. But I think just having a regular texting process, especially when it comes to visitors, when someone is even before they've come, we love it when people pre plan their visit. We can text them ahead of time, let them know we're going to be looking out for them, sending them a text afterwards, after their visit, thanking them for coming, inviting them back next week. So some of these kinds of connections where ten years ago we were still in that phase of life, I feel like where people were like, oh, I want to talk to them. But like a text is so intimate. I don't know that I don't know if they pay for text messaging. I don't want to charge them or anything like that and worry about those. That's why you'd always hear that standard text messaging rates apply and that kind of stuff, whereas almost everybody now doesn't pay for text messaging and it's just a normal method of communication. So that has been a big shift and you should really think through your communication practices. If you haven't changed them in a few years, it's probably time to take a look at changing some of those.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Well said.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. Any other thoughts, Ian, as we close up on this, any other thing to say about church visitors and how they've know?
[00:17:42] Speaker B: I think it's just we hope this is relevant and helpful. We believe it is, for sure. And I think this is something to think through again. Our heart here at Reachwright and what we do here day in and day out, is helping churches grow and reach more visitors with what we do. But, yeah, this is absolutely vital in this day and age for a pastor and just a church in general and their ministry team to think through. Are we being relevant? I think that's the question, and I think that's the word that comes to my mind to cap all this off is being relevant to visitors for sure, so that we can reach as many people as we can.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Hey, we know this is that churches are reluctant to change. That's just part of our nature. As we grow, we like to stay with the things that worked, and we probably don't look at this as often as we should, but if you are not moving your systems and your processes a little bit as the times change, I think you're becoming behind. And so it is time to take a look at that again. Hopefully this has been helpful to you and kind of gets you thinking about some things. If it has, it would mean lot to me and to Ian. If you would hit the subscribe button down below. Let us know down in the comments if you can think of any other ways that visitors have changed. We'd love to hear your feedback on what you've seen on the ground and your church there. Thanks, guys, for being a part of the Reachwright family, and we'll see you next time.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: God bless.
