Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: A lot has changed over the last few years, and one of the biggest shifts is people's expectation of being able to work from home. But what does that mean for churches and church leaders? We unpack it in this conversation.
You're listening to the Reach Right podcast, the show dedicated to helping your church reach more people and grow.
Hey, guys, I'm I'm Thomas.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: And I'm ian.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: And today we're talking about church office hours, which is an interesting topic. I think that the way churches have set up their office hours and schedules and when pastors are in the office and when they're not. This stuff has really changed a lot. I think specifically from March of 2020 on, I think the pandemic was a big changing point where churches made a shift. And then I think both employees and church members all kind of had this new expectation when it comes to office hours. And so in this episode, we wanted to go over some of the new rules that we're seeing emerging at successful churches that they're using to kind of dictate how office hours are set up at the church there. So should be an interesting conversation, I think an important one if you want to set up your church in a way that I guess is really healthy for both staff and members.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that's the key thing you just mentioned, Thomas, is you want your staff to be healthy and you want them to be effective when they are working right and you don't want them burned out. And you're right. I agree. The pandemic, I think there was already changes taking place before the pandemic with flexibility and work hours, and not just flexibility, but other things as well. But you're right, the pandemic kind of accelerated that and kind of solidified a lot of these changes. So, yeah, I think it'll be a good thing for hopefully a lot of pastors ministry leaders to hear and maybe think through how they're structuring all of this.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. So we came up with eight rules that we're hearing from other churches, and we use the term rule kind of loosely here. Don't feel like you have to do this if you want to keep your church going or anything like that. It's not a rule that way. But we're seeing these trends in healthier churches. They do seem to be embracing some of these rules. And so, Ian, why don't you kind of give us the rules and we'll kind of talk through each one of them?
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Well, rule number one is embrace flexibility in scheduling. So the rule is that all staff members have the option to adjust their start and end times based on the unique demands of their roles and personal, I guess, peak productivity periods. So, yeah, that would be the first one.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: I'm thinking more and more about this. I know for myself that there are certain times where I am most productive. And there's other times where I'm just not good at some of this deep thinking type of work. I'm just not as productive in those areas. And it's a little bit different to kind of think through that because you like to think I'm productive for all of my working hours. But if we're being honest, I think everybody is that way. So for me, we're actually recording this podcast because I'm in Hawaii. It's late morning here. It's towards the end of my productivity time. And I know for you it's towards the end of your day. When are you most productive, Ian?
[00:03:14] Speaker B: I'm probably most productive between 09:00 A.m. And 02:30 P.m.. 02:00 p.m.? Maybe. I don't know. It's good to think through it. I actually didn't think about that.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: Everybody's wired differently. We all have different ways that we're set up here. But I've kind of made myself most productive, I think, in the mornings because I'm in Hawaii and all of our staff here at Rich Ride is mostly Central Time in the United States.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: We make you get up earlier. I know that's true.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: So it does work. I don't know that I was always that way, but I think this is an important thing to take a look at when your staff is most productive and then just recognizing that with church jobs, really, the time that you work isn't as important as maybe it used to be. The nine to five scheduling idea just doesn't work. So really letting your staff within reason kind of help determine these kinds of things. And there's other rules that go along with it. But helping them figure out what is the best schedule for them to be in office or out, I think is really important.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: That's good. Well, rule number two is designate specific remote work days. So this is obviously very common. We work remotely, of course, here. Now, we're not a church, we're different. But at the same time, staff members should be permitted to work from home for a predetermined number of days each week and should be scheduled in advance and of course, communicated to the team. But I think that this could be a very healthy thing for staff employees or church staff employees.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: I'm seeing more and more, and this is something that we're seeing in all evidence of all jobs is that people are expecting some level of work from home as part of their employment at any kind of a professional job there. So it's something that is with tech companies. I'm reading about this more and more that it's really a point of contention that tech workers do not want to be in office in general, and tech companies want workers to be back in the office. I mean, Apple just built the a couple years ago, built the most beautiful campus you could possibly imagine. And now to have nobody in it because they're all used to working from home is really a tough place and this is seeing, I keep an eye on real estate markets and commercial real estate is absolutely crashing because of this phenomenon. But I think for churches, it really isn't all that different, is that I think people are looking for that kind of flexibility. And to be frank, for a lot of people, myself included, that it's hard to go back to an office kind of a setting. And I understand that there's obviously someplace for it within churches, but I think that employees and people in general have an expectation of that. And so trying to work within that and finding ways to be productive when people are working remotely I think is really important as a remote know, getting everything built onto slack and having all communication happen on one central channel, I think that really makes that thrive. But yeah, that is something important.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: We are slack experts here at Reachwright for sure. So rule number three is mandate transparent communication of work hours. So obviously with this flexibility and these things we're talking about, staff members should clearly communicate their work schedule each week and when they're going to deviate from the norm and have like a shared calendar system. I know that's something we do here. We look at each other's calendars to kind of know, okay, who's available, when, what's going on here at this time. So yeah, I think that's effective for sure.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I just think this is really simple. This only works if there's really clear communication and some kind of a central hub about where people are. Otherwise there's going to be from senior leaders. There'll be fear that staff members are maybe not using their time appropriately and staff members will feel micromanaged by their senior leaders in some way. So the best way is to nip that in the bud, have really clear expectations of I will be doing these things and working at these times and if I'm remote this light will be on and you'll know that I'm there. And so having this stuff all really clearly communicated is a key to success.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. Rule number four, establish mandatory core hours. So what do we mean by that? So regardless of flexible schedules, like all the staff members need to be available during their designated core hours. So like an example would be ten to 03:00 p.m. And this ensures like team collaboration, communication and availability for meetings because if everyone is there from ten to three, we know we can schedule a meeting at one and everyone will be there. And so yeah, good thing here I think as well.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you got it.
I think this flexibility works when there is just again clear communication on the expectation that each team member is supposed to be at a certain place and that could be remote, it could be in office, but having really clear expectations on what those core hours are so that people can freely schedule those kinds of conversations. So. Yeah. Well said, Ian.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Like it. And number five, prohibit work related contact outside of designated hours. So this one, I think, is good too. The staff members shouldn't have to be contacted for work related stuff outside their designated work hours unless it's like a big time emergency or something like that.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think this is the other end of the spectrum. Right. So with all of the flexibility, it is important that we understand that just because someone's working from home doesn't mean if they're at home, they're working. Right. So it's one of those things that you need to really be clear about that. Except in a very limited set of circumstances, people are not to be expected to be working after hours in these kinds of times just to kind of protect. What we all want from our pastors is a good family life where they're able to be parents and they're able to be husbands and wives, and they're able to actually get their rest, do what we're calling them to do, and get the rest that they need. Exactly like you're saying, take Sabbaths. So really having clear expectations on what those no go zones are for conversation and asking work related questions because they're at home, and it can be confusing sometimes if that's your office, it's easy to get caught up in those things. So yeah, well said.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. Rule six, implement strict technology etiquette during meetings. This one's kind of made me laugh a little bit, but it's true. So during team meetings, phones being on silent, people not obviously scrolling on social media, laptops or tablets shouldn't be used unless they're relevant for the yeah, let's be honest.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: So in the season of zoom, all of us, I'm sure, have been on zoom meetings where we have zoom open. Or maybe the camera's on. Maybe you have the camera off and you're doing something totally unrelated because you don't want to be in the meeting and you're scrolling through your Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, whatever it is. You're doing other things. I mean, obviously you wouldn't do that at retry eating here, I understand, but yeah, in other meetings I'm talking about right. That's where that happens. So we've all done that before. And so I think in a church setting and as a church leader, obviously we have some level of honor and kind of a code of ethics with these things here where we know that we can't be doing that kind of stuff. So just really speaking that clearly, that hey, we have really a standard here that when we're in our meetings, when we're doing things remotely yeah, obviously phones on silent and stuff when we're in personal meetings, but when we're on Zoom calls, and we're working remotely like this. We have to have that trust in one another that everybody on the team is fully engaged and not off doing other things. And I understand that you're working from home and kids come up and you have to take care of things for a second. But to just tune out because maybe you don't feel it's that important for you. I think that's where the line has to be drawn and it needs to be said. Because if it is left unsaid, just because we kind of understand we shouldn't do that, I think that that is where churches will get into trouble. So making sure that expectation is really clearly stated that everybody that's in a meeting is to be fully engaged and not doing other things during that time.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. Next one is adopt a shared digital calendar system for everyone. So we talked about kind of having obviously access to everyone's calendars, but this is where we're using like a shared digital, if I can talk, calendar system to mark in the office when they're in the office, when they're working remotely, obviously when they're on vacation. This obviously helps everyone, again, stay on the same page and be able to schedule accordingly.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah, we couldn't recommend Google Calendar anymore, I don't think. So we really love our Google Calendar. We live on that as a company here at Reachwright. I'm taking off on my 20 year anniversary trip here in a week, and it's really clear that everybody knows where Thomas is on my Google Calendar here. And one of the other things it does too is it allows you to schedule other people's time if they have available time. So I could easily schedule a conversation with you, Ian, or vice versa. We have a pretty open policy, and your church will have to decide how you set that up. Sometimes you'll want certain people available to schedule on your calendar, and maybe other people aren't free to do something like that, or maybe only at certain times. But just having this where at a glance, you can see what everybody on your team is doing, and you have to actually enforce it and encourage people to live by it. Because if there is something where it says that you are to be free on your calendar and you're not free for whatever reason, people will start to take note of that and start to expect those things from you. So really making sure that everybody on your team lives by it the same way, I think that really is a great tool for people and it does help the remote work side of things.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. No, that's good. Last but not least, actively promote and monitor vacation time usage. So basically, staff members are encouraged to utilize their full vacation and personal days, but management should monitor this to ensure staff are taking their entitled breaks and not wanting them to burn out. So again, that's really important.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Just a couple of weeks ago, we did a whole episode on Pastor vacation time and how much time should Pastors be having? So we'll put a card in here for that. So you can see up top here where we have that. But I think this is really important. Obviously, vacation time, especially when your home becomes your workplace, it becomes even more important to really carve that out and use the vacation time that people on church staff that were given here and then really making sure that again. Because we're in our office during our part of our vacation, it might feel like we'll be tempted to do some of that normal work that we do because our office is our home. And so really making sure that we carve that out. And you have really strict guidelines for your church staff on working with other staff members while they're on vacation. I think the threshold for an emergency is even higher when it's on vacation time than it is like during non working hours. It's something that it has to be fire in the building kind of level conversations when you have those things. But yeah, really making sure you talk through those kinds of things, that rule will help you have success with the work from home kind of model. Awesome. Yeah, it is good stuff. I think it's something that a lot of churches are struggling with right now because it's a big transition when you move from something that is primarily an onsite job to something that really can be done remotely. And I think we've all known that for a while is that our best ministry doesn't take place in front of a computer in an office. It takes place face to face in coffee shops and in homes and in front of groups of people. And so really, I think churches as a whole are ripe for this transition and we should have one of the easiest times transitioning to this work from home and kind of combined work structure. But there are some challenges to go with it too. So hopefully this has been helpful for you, these new eight rules. If it has, let us know down in the comments. We'd love to hear your feedback. Are there any rules that your church has to make working from home more successful for you? We'd love to hear about those as well. Thanks for being a part of the Reachwright family and we'll catch you next time. Ah.
